STOP "Stop-Loss"
Since December 11 an Iraq War veteran and rap musician named Marc Hall as been sitting in the Liberty, Georgia jail. Hall wrote an anti-war song when he was issued a "stop-loss" order after he had finished his tour in Iraq and returned home to his wife and kids and his music.
Under his hip-hop alias, Marc Watercus, Marc Hall sent his song to the Pentagon to protest the stop-loss policy. Hall told his military superiors he opposed stop-loss and the war in Iraq and that his song was a “free expression of how people feel about the Army and its stop-loss policy.” Hall's sergeant told him he actually liked the song and didn’t consider it to be seditious or a threat.
But Hall's base commander at Ft. Stewart had Hall arrested. He then contracted with civilian police authorities to imprison Hall until some future date when a court marshal might be convened. Then the Pentagon enhanced the charges against Hall by claiming that Hall's song had “communicated a threat” to his fellow soldiers.
Using stop-loss, the Pentagon has prevented 120,000 soldiers from leaving the military when their contract is up. Originally intended to prevent having to withdraw soldiers from the battlefield if their active duty contracts expired while they were engaged in combat, stop-loss has morphed into a ploy to force soldiers to remain in the military unwillingly to make up for low reenlistment numbers. Stop-loss orders generally hit soldiers who have come home and who, like Hall, have returned to their families and civilian life.
Attorney Jim Klimanski, a member of the National Lawyers Guild and the Military Law Task Force, has been following Hall’s case. Klimanski says that the military is grossly “overreacting” and that Hall’s musical protest is protected by the First Amendment.
Marc Hall and other stop-loss victims look at the unending wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and believe that they are doomed to keep returning to battle until they are killed. Hall says his song is simply reflecting this attitude, a common one among troops who have been forced to serve multiple combat deployments in violation of their military contracts.
We can support Marc Hall and others like him who feel stop-loss is a travesty and violation of our basic liberties as Americans. Call your elected representatives and demand that Hall and other stop-loss protesters be released. Tell military age men and women tempted by promises of college funding and "signing bonuses" the truth. Let them know that they can be prevented from ever using their GI benefits by being stop-lossed to death. Make them aware that at the military’s whim they can be kept under fire virtually forever, just like Marc Hall and 120,000 other betrayed troops.
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I'm a little confused here. Is this a military matter or a civilian matter? Why is he held without charges indefinitely in a civilian jail? Don't charges have to be brought within a certain period of time or you have to be released?
I researched some of this and found this blog to be factual. I don't like it on the surface. I understand the policy if he were in a battle zone. He was not.
Contact Info:
(Senators)
Chambliss, Saxby - (R - GA) Class II
416 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3521
Web Form: chambliss.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=Email
Isakson, Johnny - (R - GA) Class III
120 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3643
Web Form: isakson.senate.gov/contact.cfm
Was he considered enlisted still? Seems military personnel lose rights when they become government issued. Maybe a reform is needed..... but also remember to work within the law too.
"Using stop-loss, the Pentagon has prevented 120,000 soldiers from leaving the military when their contract is up."
Now, TP, do you KNOW this to be a lie, which would make you a liar, or do you not realize its a lie, which only makes you ignorant?
When I joined the US Navy, I enlisted for a 4 year tour and 2 years of active reserve. Most people sign up for a period of active duty, and a period of active reserve. Then, you go into inactive reserve, or you get out completely.
The contract you say is "up" is not "up" when your active duty term ends.
Its an all-volunteer military.
What you are saying, is that people who sign a contract, execute a portion of that contract, and then decide they do not want to execute the rest of their contract, should be free to walk away and violate that contract...right?
This guy is still property of the US military. By defying them, he is violating the UCMJ and subject to court martial. If he left without permission, he is AWOL.
So which is it... ignorant or liar?
Nice graphic, it captures the gist of the blog. I know, I know they should have read the fine print, but still.
Gold_Panner -
I wouldn't call it a lie. If I used an inaccurate number, could you please cite the source of your accurate information?
Here's what I used:
"Pentagon officials said more than 120,000 troops have been kept on active duty past their retirement date since 2002 under the [stop-loss] policy. That includes about 12,000 on active duty at the end of May, nearly 4,000 of whom are National Guard members." [source: Stars and Stripes, 11 July 2008]
"...some 120,000 soldiers have been affected by stop-loss in its various forms since 2001, Army officials said Wednesday, a practice that [Defense Secretary] Gates said had amounted to 'breaking faith' with those in uniform." [source: "Army plans to Extradite Stop Loss Rapper Away From Public Scrutiny." Veterans Today, 05 Feb 2010].
-
Apology accepted.
For those who don't know about the US Military Service Obligation, or MSO, no matter how long you sign up to serve, you have an 8 year Military Service Obligation to complete. All enlisted personnel, upon entering the US military services, sign a contract promising a minimum of eight years in the military. The "stop-loss" policy has extended some Active Duty periods beyond the agreed-upon eight years.
Anyone have any idea why Gold_Panner seems so upset?
Rolandmc - I'm a bit confused, too. It appears to be a military matter. Apparently, Army Spcialist Marc Hall was still under military contract when he composed the song protesting the stop-loss policy. I don't know what his current status is, but it's a pretty crummy way to treat any veteran or citizen.
Hey Skeptic,
Sweden is calling.....just do it.
Go and be free of all this tyranny.
You are not accomplishing anything here in the American prison camp
you have built around yourself....go and be free.
Life is short....just do it.....escape! Be free....
lonewolf -
The Court of Military Appeals has held on several occasions that all Constitutional rights exercised by civilians can be exercised by military service personnel. I don't recall that the Founders conferred fewer rights on militia members.
“The Bush administration introduced stop-loss to ensure it had enough service personnel to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan without enforcing a draft that would have been politically unpopular and brought home the true cost of the war to many people. Critics have described the policy as "involuntary servitude" and as a severe blow to morale. The military has said it will end stop-loss next year.”
Bush’s wars based on lies still negatively impact the lives of our young military personnel.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/13/marc-watercus-rap-song-pentagon
It appears some of you have not been in the military. Unless you have been discharged honorably or dishonorably you have to to abide by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Military service is not democratic, you don't get to vote and you are required to follow orders. Speaking out in the manner that Marc Hall has done, will lead to a court marshall. The only way that the stop-loss program will disappear is if John Conyers has his way and re-instates the draft or if congress stops funding military action and Obama agrees.
TP, please give the examples you have: "all Constitutional rights exercised by civilians can be exercised by military service personnel."
I'll attach a paragraph from the UCMJ that I believe shows a great deal of difference between our civil law and military law.
(d) The officer who imposes the punishment authorized in subsection (b), or his successor in command, may, at any time, suspend probationally any part or amount of the unexecuted punishment imposed and may suspend probationally a reduction in grade or forfeiture imposed under subsection (b), whether or not executed. In addition, he may, at any time, remit or mitigate any part or amount of the unexecuted punishment imposed and may set aside in whole or in part the punishment, whether executed or unexecuted, and restore all rights, privileges and property affected. He may also mitigate reduction in grade to forfeiture or detention of pay. When mitigating--
(1) arrest in quarters to restriction;
(2) confinement on bread and water or diminished rations to correctional custody;
(3) correctional custody confinement
I looked at a couple of articles and one had the Rap Lyrics that do mention shooting members of his unit weather it is an actual threat or not the court will decide if it goes that far; which I doubt. I would say he will get released from the Army and defiantly not deploy as he would be considered dangerous to his fellow Soldiers. He will probably get his benefits and the anti war folks will buy his recording for support and never listen to it. I agree this is an overreaction by the Army and will probably be shut down as soon as possible to avoid any further damage to public relations.
ThosPayne good article and I almost felt like you cared for the individual until I read your last paragraph. The movement I assume you are supporting in this article has no compassion for Soldiers and it never has; all they want is to use these young men and women for an agenda that the overwhelming majority of Soldiers, Airmen and Marines does not support or condone. The Anti War movement wants to show Soldiers’ battle scars in an exploitive self serving manner and do so without regard to anyone except a naïve overeducated minority that has no concept of a real threat or real compassion due to sheltered lives or chornic polarization. You say the war is making more terrorist; I say the Anti War Movement is making more Fox News viewers.
fourgen -
You misunderstood again. Who said the military was a democratic institution? FYI, the "right" to vote isn't even in the US Constitution.
Here's the source for my statement:
"Constitutional Rights of Military Personnel. Hearings before the Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights of the Committee on the Judiciary" United States Senate - Pursuant to S. Res. 260, Eighty-Seventh Congress, 2nd Session, February 20 and 25 and March 1, 2, 6, 9, and 12, 1962.
I did the research for you. Now read it for yourself.
fourgen -
Who told you that the UCMJ takes precedence over the US Constitution? They misinformed you.
bombender -
Yes, I have an ulterior motive. My nephew is a teacher with a wife and two toddlers. He was just redeployed on a stop-loss following two previous tours; one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. There are tens of thousands of young men and women like him. I want them back home alive and intact.
With all due respect, you're full of crap.
Skeptic,
With absolutely no due respect, you are an ass.
ThosPayne ; I spent fourteen months in Iraq under stop loss; yeah I told my dad it sucked when I was looking at going back again and wanted to retire and have a regular life. No one feels the pain of back to back deployments like Soldiers and I have felt the pain personally and the hurt of looking in one of my young Soldiers’ eyes that was going through a second divorce due to extended separation. In twenty one year’s seven months of service and dealing with literally hundreds of Soldiers problems, I never had a Soldier say “he was not aware of what was in his contract” or was tricked or misled and I was still in 2008 at the height of stop loss and extended tours. Yes stop loss sucks and war sucks yes it is wrong for the relatively small amount of citizens to bear this burden and I can think of another million things that are wrong with the situation and so can the military. So what is your solution? 1. End stop loss, results: Commander’s troop strength reduced on the ground have same mission with less troops resulting in increased casualties and even longer deployments for those who remain. (Hard to see how Soldiers win on this one) 2. Draft, results: By the time it was implemented the war would be over and it would be hugely unpopular. (Soldiers or the Military do not want the draft as they are proud to serve in an all volunteer force and there would probably be a decrea
continued: 2. Draft, results: By the time it was implemented the war would be over and it would be hugely unpopular. (Soldiers or the Military do not want the draft as they are proud to serve in an all volunteer force and there would probably be a decrease in benefits as recruitment incentives would not be required. Anti War movement relives Glory Days)
3. Increased Troop Strength Authorized and More People Join the Military due to increased educational and financial incentives, results: Combat tours would be shortened and you would have a more educated civilian work force due to the GI Bill. (Sounds like a win for Soldiers and the military I wonder why it is never discussed as an option.)
4. End the War Now as troop levels cannot be sustained, Results: Unknown but I have said before; arguably the most informed man in the world the man we as a nation elected as President deems this is vital to national security and that is what Soldiers do.
So once again I say if helping Soldiers is what you want to do write your congressman to increase authorized troop strength.
All said; your article is totally lacking in any sort personal insight and could have at least gained some since of credibility from an individual that was not the poster child of the week for the end the war now crowd. The product you produced in imagery and content reads and digest like canned rhetoric; it is full of crap and offers no solutions. I put to you with all due respect; I am not full …
All said; your article is totally lacking in any sort personal insight and could have at least gained some since of credibility from an individual that was not the poster child of the week for the end the war now crowd. The product you produced in imagery and content reads and digest like canned rhetoric; it is full of crap and offers no solutions. I put to you with all due respect; I am not full of crap as I am not swallowing.
So once again as I can count myself among the 120,000 betrayed. I have never felt betrayed by my nation or its institutions and have always been grateful for the experience and compensation service to my country provided me and my family. The first time I heard the word betrayed used in association with a Soldier was in a New York Times add prior to Senate hearings dealing with the Iraq war. I felt betrayed as a General who was loved by his Soldiers and had earned much more respect than he was shown by making a childish play on words with his name. I felt betrayed when the undeniable success of the Surge was been downplayed as a mere passing and impending doom would soon follow; as there is a group of Americans that revel in American Soldier’s defeat and dismiss their victories as tainted things not to be discussed. I felt betrayed when Code Pink was protesting at Walter Reed and I personally knew Soldiers that were recovering there. I feel betrayed when the WBC is on my brothers and sisters funeral route. Yes I have felt betrayed……….
Bombender, (Artillery?)
Well said.
Mr. "ThosPayne" (AKA Skeptic) uses several names on these blogs so it's like arguing with a multi-headed bad trip.
His subversive attacks on America are blatant and his intention is only to obstruct and stir up the mud.
It's all toxic and if he appears to level off, he's just setting you up.
I appreciated your posts and thanks for sharing. It sounds like you have a good handle on our current military situation
and solution #3 sounds good to me. Two cent sales tax across the US till the objective is met would do it. That's one
tax I would never complain about.
Thanks for your service.
Welcome home.