Stay on them about transparency, Ronald. It wouldn't be the first time that the well being of the common good is ignored for the greed of a few.

Euripides, An evil, greedy developer built the house or apartment you are living in.

Jon, I can't speak for Euripides, but some people build their own homes. I understand not all developers are evil and greedy, and I understand that many living on the Divide don't want to see ANY new development. Therein lies the problem. Compromise...middle ground...how is that reached? What would that look like in this case? One side is: None. The other side is: It's mine, I'll do as I please. I think transparency in the process is not such a foolish request. Do you have any constructive thoughts?

Jon: You have no idea where I live, nor did I say all developers are greedy. Touchy, aren't we?

Roland: Exactly.

Rolandmc. Even if you built your own home some developer created the sub division and put in the infra structure.

Constructive Thoughts:

The county has a general plan as well as the cities.

Before you buy or build look at the current zoning.

If you don't like the zoning near the property you are thinking about don't buy it.

The county or city will usually support the current zoning. The people that fight the current zoning just add costs to new home buyers.

If you find out that the empty lot next to your house has been zoned for a brothel, you might want to buy it before it is built.

There are all sorts of environmental requirements for new developments already.

Without growth there is economic decline.

There are less people living in Placer County today than in the 1850's. There are less people in Foresthill than the 1850's.

There used to be a thriving lumber industry in Foresthill.

There is already total transparency in the county's building permit process. Endless public hearings, etc.

Don't buy a house next to an airport, school, or fairgrounds and then complain about noise and insects.

Don't buy a home with a view unless you know what the zoning is for the view.

No major sub divisions will be build in Placer County for 5 to 10 years because of the current economic situation.

Bickford Ranch after 10 years of hearings and lawsuits was finally approved and is sitting idle. Way to go Sierra Club.

Those statements are great in theory, Jon. But I think we all know that many of your aforementioned "constructive thoughts" are beset with problems. Sadly, justice has a way of being trod upon when big money talks. The average homeowner does not have the means to take on a larger entity when that entity decides to do what it wills. This is not paranoia, nor anti-developer - it's realistic. It'd be naive to believe otherwise.

Remember, Jon - your friends are the ones in trouble for corruption in Placer County. Could it be that they're not telling you the truth?

Jon, apparently I touched a button.

"general" plan

"current" zoning

Interesting words. I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, per se. Except for the "developer created the sub division and put in the infra structure" part. Those of us that don't live in a sub division...oh never mind.

Things change over the course of time. Current zoning, at the time of purchase can change down the road. General plans change too. I'm not advocating "no growth". "Managed" growth for reasons other than capital gain is smart for everyone.

Reread the letter. I don't read where the letter writer is advocating a complete halt to this project. He just wants to be kept informed so he can be a part of the discussion.

There is no corruption with my friends.

The big money is with the Sierra Club.

Without capitol gain we would be a third world country.

There is already a ton of transparency.

Someone had to create the lot, i.e. sub-division you live on. A private individual applies to the government to create lots. The government approves or doesn't approve the lot. You either created the lot you built on ergo you are a developer or a developer created the lot.

I am using sub-division to describe the legal formation of smaller lots out of larger pieces of property. I think you are thinking a sub-division is a housing area with lots of homes, sidewalks, cul de sacs, etc. Everyone lives on a sub-divided lot. Even Spanish land grants were a form of sub-division.

Are these developers going to widen Foresthill Road BEFORE building all these homes. It is already a challenge to navigate Foresthill Road during commute hours. Maybe these people need to commute this road first (for a while) before building. There's nothing like getting stuck in a car train, near the rear, caused by somebody doing 35 - 40 that won't pull over and speeds up to limit (55mph) in the passing lanes so you can't get around, and all the rude and indignant drivers that insist on driving faster than posted and put your life/property at risk as they cut you off trying to get around you at the last minute! And they want to add another 4K people to the mix? SAY WHAT!!

JonGreen; Not neccessarily. Is it in a cluster? Is it causing traffic congestion? It is the callous disregard for the surrounding area that constitutes "an evil, greedy developer".

"Without capitol [sic] gain, we would be a third world country." Oh really? You mean requiring rich people to pay taxes at the same rates as people who work for wages would ruin this country? Interesting.

I agree with Jon on this one. At least the part about developing land. Everyone lives on subdivided land and uses some sort of infrastructure.

What I don't agree with is the attitude of Foresthillbillies. They don't like newcomers or change. The people at Todd Valley are un-welcomed and looked down on. The same is true for Auburn Lake Trails except it's the George Town and Greenwood hillbillies.

There should be a compromise between the ridgerunners and people that want to live there. Building in the valley is stupid the hills are the logical choice. Foresthill Road will have to be able to hold up under the weight of more traffic and that will be paid for by the new homeowners and Placer County. There's plenty of room on the ridges. People that object should look into other areas of the state or country 'cause the people will keep coming.

Greedy developers and builders own this congressional district and run all the politicians with their campaign donations- and threaten to sue local boards if they don't get their own way on rezoning.

Typically the boards quickly fold to avoid a lawsuit, leaving it up to private individuals and organizations to try to stop relentless sprawl. For you see, the types of people that move in to these gated retirement and upper tier golf club communities expect gold plated city and county services, but they certainly have no intentions of paying TAXES to support said services. They may also come in and deliberately set out to drive all existing businesses OUT, replace them with Big Box Stores, and we won't even get too much into what happens when they are the sorts that like to run hyper conservative political campaigns.

In short, they're tax deadbeats who will next be trying to gut your school funding, to reduce their taxes, so they can send their kids to private schools. Ditto any other tax. They hate things like public transportation and having the peons being able to use public facilities without paying user fees.

This isn't about getting "zoning," and building as much as it's a handy way for politicians to get more donations.

That land use mitigation stuff made a fortune for Doolittle's friends.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting idiots ruining your neighborhood.

Canyon, Even the people's republic of davis voted to have a Target built in their town. Algore is a billionaire because of carbon credits.

gulliver wrote:

"Without capitol [sic] gain, we would be a third world country." Oh really? You mean requiring rich people to pay taxes at the same rates as people who work for wages would ruin this country? Interesting.

You might want to reseach this a bit for I think you will discover your are very mistaken.

ChuxxR: "Attitude of Foresthillbillies"???!!!! SAY WHAT!! I've lived there for 16 years and have never encountered rudeness on the part of the establised residents. Quit generalizing about how people are where you don't even know them!

MikeGruber: OK, I'll bite. What am I mistaken about? Long term capital gains are taxed at 15%. Ordinary income (what a wage earner makes) is taxed at 25% for income over $34,000, 28% for income over $82,000, and so forth, up to a maximum rate of 35% for income over $373,000.

If I sell some of my stocks or sell off one of my rental properties, I pay 15% of the gain (unless I do a 1031 exchange). But the guy who comes out to my rental house to replace the water heater pays 28% on the $700 I pay him. Is that fair? I am going to continue to invest and make more money, regardless of the applicable tax rate. But my investment decisions will be artificially skewed in favor of activities which will result in long term capital gains income vs. ordinary earned income.

ChuxxR, does the R stand for Reallydum or what!! You should take your generalizations and you them on yourself, you are a TOOL!! G.A.L

The property bought by said property owners is zoned for some 553 homes (not exact).The last time this all came about it was because said

property owners tried to quietly have many other properties rezoned. To make room for the 2,213 homes they want to become millionaires on at the communities expense!! My family has owned property on the divide just as long as said property owners and were effected by their rezoning scheme.553 zoning is what the paid for that's what they get!! GET IT!!

Sorry for the mis-spelling of capital. I also meant capital gain, i.e. the creation of wealth not capital gains as in selling appreciated capital assets.

JonGreen: Sorry to jump down your throat, based on my misunderstanding of your comment. I actually agree that the opportunity to earn and accumulate wealth was and remains critical to our nation's prodigious economic success.

You guys are too much. People on the ridges don't usually mind my when I call them ridge running hillbillies. I've be one and mean no offense. pollywog, if you've only lived on the ridge for 16 years you are a newcomer, just kidding;) I didn't know the folks in Todd Valley were accepted into the fold.

gulliver,

I like that....."my investments decisions will be artificially skewed in favor of.....", that's a great use of words. But couldn't you say, "....my investment decisions will be...... logically...... skewed in favor....."?

After all, isn't it logical to want to make more money than you spend. Obviously you realize that and espouse the practice. Nice work, capitalist scum! ;-)

ChuxxR,

In this case doesn't the "R" in your name represent "reasonable"?

I like your "build on the ridges" preference rather than in the fertile valley. Too bad Placer County Planning doesn't share that goal. They have most of the heavy development going on in the flat-lands, while the mountains get away fairly unscathed.

ChuxxR,

You know you're on a roll when you get Pollywog pissed-off at you!

I get such a laugh out of people who believe ALL developers pay off the planning and building officials in order to build in this county. That is an urban legend and all it does is pit capitalists against the very people who benefit from their activities.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank EVERY DEVELOPER who ever put in a street, sewer line, drainage ditch, sidewalk, retaining wall, or underground utility. Without your initial investment we would not have the great county we all enjoy on a daily basis. The risk you took has hopefully made you some money. It certainly has made our county a beautiful place to live!

gregcalac, my comrade: Investments are artificially skewed by tax laws that favor some forms of investment over others. When all forms of economic activity receive similar tax treatment, investment decisions are driven by sound economic principles--by "logic", as you put it. But tax laws that encourage particular forms of investment over others often drive investment decisions which would not otherwise be made. With rental real estate, I get to deduct my interest expense and I get a largely artificial deduction for depreciation, which means that I end up paying no tax on my rental income. If I hold on to the property long enough, I can pass the property on to my children tax free, as they will take the property with a stepped-up tax basis and will keep an artificially low Prop 13 property tax assessment. The favorable tax treatment of real estate was one of the forces which resulted in the overheated real estate market of recent history.

gulliver,

Thanks, I love that stuff!

You forgot the part where we pay no SS on that rental income either.

I've been a lowly plastering contractor for the past 30 years, came to this town with $600 cash, never made a lot of money in a single tax year, but I realized early where to invest every dollar I could squeeze out of my meager earnings. Real estate!

Most of the self-made people I know did the same thing.

Dang, what a great country!!!!!

On 11/17/09 at 06:24 PM, JonGreen wrote: "....i.e. the creation of wealth not capital gains....".

On 11/17/09 at 07:10 PM, gulliver wrote: "I actually agree that the opportunity to earn and accumulate wealth..." .

gulliver,

That's how I read Jon's post...you do have a rabies shot I hope.

No biggie....didn't break the skin.