Just today, a letter from Ed Scotten, a VFP member, claims that our military troops are used for "an illegal and unnecessary occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and the accompanying slaughter of hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent victims of this senseless bloodshed."

Bears repeating. THIS is the VFP.

Will the young child standing down the street watching you know that you are turning your back on the VFP or will they think you are turning your back on a veteran that served honorably?

"We should pick the right time to protest and practice our right to express our freedom of speech."

Thanks Vets!

Roland: Thank you for expressing why the VFP should not be allowed in this parade. To mix these scoundrels in with honorable veterans is a travesty.

PS: When I say scoundrels, let me quote one.

Just today, a letter from Ed Scotten, a VFP member, claims that our military troops are used for "an illegal and unnecessary occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and the accompanying slaughter of hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent victims of this senseless bloodshed."

How do we tell our troops they are honorable and simultaneously tell them they are slaughtering innocents?

Yosemite...and about that child watching YOU? The question you haven't answered.

Their parents should explain why some are considered to have served honorably.

Roland: Are you hiding behind children?

They will ask the question, and someone will have to explain that there are honorable veterans, and then these other scoundrels who demanded to be in the parade at the threat of a lawsuit. Some people do not want to give them honor.

Then, tell the child that its unfortunate that some people insist upon inserting their anti-military political message into a Veterans' Day parade.

Maybe you can mention Benedict Arnold, Lee Harvey Oswald as examples of people who were not honorable veterans.

If you explain it carefully, and honestly, the child will understand.

Hopefully the VFP will not blend in with the truly honorable veterans so that the child can see me turn away from them, then turn back and continue cheering the real honorable veterans in that parade.

lonewolf...you see, what they do today doesn't change whether they served honorably. Disagree with their politics...thank them for their service. Is that child going to know the difference?

I can see where all of this is going. Thanks to a few egotistic knuckleheads, there will be more incidents like the fight that made the headlines in the Journal the next day. Both sides will make juvenile comments about who started it. The organizers will come to the realization that this crap will continue year after year and eventually they will pull the plug on the whole nasty affair. A classic lose/lose situation.

What the organizers should do is to take away the signs and banners of all of the veteran groups and have the vets march as one homogeneous group. Fall into a formation by highest rank and march down the street as a unified band of brothers. That means you too Sailor Sam. Leave the rotten tomatoes to your compost pile.

Acadian -

It won't be like previous years. Law enforcement has been alerted and attorneys will be present. Any incident will be digitally recorded for later use as evidence in court.

I really like your idea about marching as one homogeneous group of veterans.

Yosemite, once again you are confusing "supporting our troops" with what our Administration is doing. If our troops get deployed to war, they are doing their job. When they kill, that is their job. Regardless of the justification used to go to war. When the justification of going to war is proven false as has been the case for Iraq, it is in fact a senseless slaughter. The troops aren't responsible for that. Somehow your rational thinking refuses to acknowledge that concept.

Thanks Skeptic, just like the closing ceremony of the Olympics.

I think we should get rid of the parade all together. Some of those veterans marching will have different political views than me. Unless they ALL wear a sign stating their political positions how will I know who to boo and who to cheer? Because that's what this parade is about. Oh, and Sam, I don't agree with some of your beliefs, so as far as I'm concerned your service is null, void, and unworthy of mention. I will assume because we disagree, that you were not honorable in your service, because of course, the two go hand in hand. And I didn't realize that my mother in law, may she rest in peace, was an imposter being an esteemed member of the VFW as the spouse of soldier, having never actually served, how dare she.

If you want to stand on the sidelines doing pirouettes as you try to determine which veteran deserves your respect, knock yourself out. You have obviously misunderstood the meaning of the day, which is to promote peace. It was the reason the day was even evented. You mislead with your statements regarding the VFP, they have done a lot for returning veterans. I'm sorry to say that once again, you are displaying that hypocritical side of you that is so unbecoming.

And by the way, thank you, and thank you to all veterans, for your service to this country. My feelings regarding the desire for a peaceful world where my son will never have to see combat does not indicate any animosity towards soldiers, past or present, no matter what you'd like to believe.

One interesting thing about the passage of the health care bill is overlooked: Nancy Pelosi was able to get it done because she played a role striking in its similarities to that played by Ted Kennedy. Bear with me.

Kennedy was legendary for his ability to bridge liberals and moderates. His liberal credentials enabled him to persuade fellow liberals to swallow difficult votes because they instinctively believed he’d fought as hard as possible and would continue to do so.

A similar dynamic has been at play with Pelosi on Health Care. The reason the bill passed was that she was able to persuade liberals in her caucus to swallow compromises that didn’t sit well with them. And she was able to do this for a similar reason Kennedy was able to bridge moderates and liberals in the Senate.

Liberals reluctantly supported a weak version of the public option because they instinctively believed Pelosi fought as hard as possible and was convinced the weak one was the only way to pass a bill. So, they reluctantly backed the bill even though it contains the Stupak anti-abortion amendment. That can always be stripped out later.

The point is, the faith liberals have in Pelosi’s commitment to their core principles is what enabled them to swallow bitter compromises.

It's another sign of how under-estimated Pelosi has been throughout this whole negotiation process.

Until last year, there was ZERO political involvement in the parade.

The VFP started the problem. This is indisputable.

Unless we want the Veterans for Family Values, the Veterans for Christ, the Veterans for Gay Marriage, the Veterans for Jihad to all be marching in the parade, we should only allow honorable veteran's groups to march.

Acadian: The egotistical knuckleheads are the VFP. They are a political group. You cannot refute that.

2049er: No, you are confusing "Attacking the administration" with "Attacking the mission and thus the troops". You cannot tell our troops that their mission is unjustified and expect them to maintain morale. You cannot call them murderers and claim that they are massacring hundreds of thousands of people and then tell them that you support them.

The troops know the difference.

The argument that they are above this fray is false as well. They come back, they hear the bickering, and they are affected by it. Who wants to fight in an unjust war? Who wants to massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians?

The only reason they continue on with strength and honor is that they figure you guys are just idiots.

Y-Sam,

Some folks here have the ability to both attack our military efforts with wild conspiracies, make dramatic claims to KNOW our National Security is just a greed stricken invasion of the planet, and insist our soldiers efforts are meaningless while at the same time claim their behavior is actually supporting our troops. Imagine that.

Veterans Day to me is to honor those who have and are defending America, not their political views.

Somebody sure wants to keep George Bush and Dick Cheney's little Mid- Eastern adventure going. I wonder why that is.

I agree that this particular group was responsible for bringing politics into last year's parade and that was wrong on their part.

I agree that the veteran members should be allowed to march in the parade as a group as long as they make no effort to protest the war. Not one sign, not one shout. If they do, then they are at the mercy of the crowd.

But may I add that if they plan to simply march, I oppose anyone turning their back on them based on their political views of being anti war. The fact is, there is no such thing as a pro war veterans organization in the Unites States. Not the VFW, not the American Legion. Not even the United States military is pro war. If anything, the biggest fans of peace are those who must engage in war. The difference is about whether any war is necessary and that is what separates the Veterans For Peace organization from the others that I have mentioned. But they are still veterans and if they keep the politics out of the parade, then they've earned my salute.If not, they can catch a glimpse of Yosemite Sam's backside for all I care.

Acadian: If other marchers are allowed to do so with signs, then so should the VFP...signs carried by anyone should be approved first.

Though I wish that the VFP hadn't decided to politicize the event, I see no reason to further politicize the event by responding. Attention from blogs, LTE's , editorials and negative reactions are the point of political protest. They feed the need so this will be my last comment on the subject.

Skeptic and Chuxxr

Happy Birthday.

I'd like to apologize for my sarcastic remarks. This whole thing is just really disappointing. I don't understand what has happened to this town. Is it just us that is so polarized and negative? Or is it like this in towns everywhere? I know there are good people, I've seen it, but why does it feel lately like people cannot set aside their differences and shake hands, instead they'd rather just give them the finger? Peace...we can't even accomplish it here on the blogs of our little newspaper, how will we ever achieve this on a larger scale. No one wants it, not even for a small town parade.

YS: Please develop a questionnaire, to be signed, under oath, by any veteran who wants to be in the parade. Make sure to include questions that would cover all aspects of their citizenship, family relationships, legal infractions etc. Because I agree with you - only honorable veterans should be allowed to march in Auburn's parade. Make sure to ask if they have ever smoked dope or divorced, because many of us find drug abuse dishonorable, and divorce is totally against the Bible. If it's too late for this year, let's develop it for next year and make sure the parade organizers have it in time, If they don't want to uphold the public's desire to honor veterans (but only the honorable ones) then let's just turn our back on the whole thing. Honestly. Is it too much to ask?

Anyone who believes that politics can be separated from the military and war just does not know how the world works. Politics is war and war is politics, and those who served their country have earned the right to express their political views because they have experienced the military and possibly war and know them both first hand better than the chickenhawks like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld and probably many posting on this site.

Acadian,

Your last response was very rational. I should point out with regard to the comment "No veteran's group is pro-war", I agree.

In fact, the name VFP was intentionally designed to mislead. They are not pro-peace any more than anyone else. They are anti-war.

There is a difference. You can be for peace through strength, peace by suppressing evil, peace by helping those in need.

Or, you can be anti-war whether it is justified or not. They are Veterans Against War.

The problem with that angle, is that sometimes war is necessary. When Saddam entered Kuwait, the world could have sat and watched, but war was necessary. When the Serbs began slaughtering Kosovars, war was necessary. When Hitler began slaughtering Jews, war was necessary. Bush's decision to engage in war to push Saddam out of power, create a democracy, kick the Taliban out of Afghanistan..that war was necessary in the eyes of many people.

A small fringe group thinks its not and creates conspiracy theories to justify their position, but that does not justify the claims they make or the impact it has upon our troops.

If our troops are big enough to take the crap dished out by the VFP, they can clearly understand when people turn their backs on those scum.

And when I use the term "scum", I should remind you of the words chosen today by Ed Scotten as what our troops are fighting for... "an illegal and unnecessary occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and the accompanying slaughter of hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent victims of this senseless bloodshed."

Now, if someone told you that you were fighting for "an illegal and unnecessary occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and the accompanying slaughter of hundreds of thousands of mostly innocent victims of this senseless bloodshed.", would that impact your morale?

Not if you clearly understood that the person who made that statement was an idiot.

Thank God for those troops who served with honor and continue to honor our armed forces.

To hell with those who pretend they served honorably when they did not, and/or dishonor those on the field of battle today.

Acadian, Thank you for bringing some common sense to this issue. I love your idea about no banners. That should be implemented.

Kitty- Most of this is just Republican astroturfing- they are desperate that not all of us just rolled over into a little ball of submissiveness after the last election- It's part of the ongoing process of trying to dominate the political scene and maintain the gravy train of dwindling government funding towards their pet projects. They WANT to keep these wars going.

Look at the history of most of the posters who first wouldn't let this group even march in "their" parade, and the line they've been pushing for several years now here.

Look at the hatemongering, racism, religious baiting, and sexism they've done since 2006 to stay in power. Look at the history of MAF/RMR setting up those stupid hanging effigy ads, MAF/RMR was paid in part by the Pentagon to do garbage like that to keep the war popular in the public eye. Now they are scared ***less that the President might not ramp up Afghanistan for them.

Not every person who went to 'Nam came back meaner than a snake and crazy, but the ones who did are now determined to prove their worth by forcing others to "win" this current war for them. Their dirty tricks are legion. And then there are all the draft dodgers and rich folk who got deferments and didn't go, who are now running various government offices. They like calling other people unpatriotic and cowards. Live by the chickenhawk, go into debt, die in the poorhouse.

Kitty.....CanyonRat's post sheds a little light on what I was trying to convey on the other blog.

It's just partisan bile and does nothing to help anybody, with the exception of herself perhaps.

Legitimate issues got lost in the constant chaotic political attack, and that is not good.

I will repeat myself. It is a lot of tit for tat or they did it first. The question is, why respond in kind? Don't like their message, ignore it rather than respond. Don't think the parade is a place to protest...don't protest the protesters. The protests have been seen...leave the parade alone EVERYONE!

Thanks vet!

Roland, its not tit for tat and they did it first.

In the real world, there are those who have been holding a parade to honor veterans who served honorably and this parade has gone on for virtually ever.

Last year, a group of scum-ball anti-military activists (some of which are vets) tried to insert their protest into the parade.

These are facts. They are not debatable unless you fail to recognize reality.

Doing some research on VFP who claims to have been in existence since the 1980s, I find that their first protests were in 2003. So in other words, perhaps they were for peace originally, but they morphed into an anti-military group in the 2000s after the war in Iraq started.

If you honestly want to see this crappola stop, you should be doing like me...calling for the VFP to leave our parade alone. If there are veterans in the VFP that served honorably, let them join the VFW or just stand on the side like I will ( US Navy Vet ) and cheer for those who served honorably and continue to support our troops today.

We do not need people who claim our troops are committing mass murder of civilians marching in this parade.

YS is correct. If we allow the anti-military vets in our parade, we will have to allow our pro-gay vets in our parade as well. It’s not that I’m against a pro-gay group of veterans. I would honor them as they should be honored. It’s just that I don’t want to see our parade turn into a political statement for any special interest group. I think Acadian said it best. Just disallow any banners and have all vets march side by side. Or, make it a rule that the only banners allowed are those describing the branch of the armed forces you served in and the unit, etc. Thank you Vets and God bless you.

Just got back from the parade. The VFP passed with no fanfare or trouble. Patrick remember vets are vets. Every one of them is for peace. That's what the fighting is all about. The very right that lets morons like VFP march in the parade has been fought for by every veteran. I objected more over the shameful display of advertisements on the vehicles, sponsors or not.

All in all it was a great parade, the Vietnam veterans were welcomed home along with all the veterans. I'll post some photos.

P'50 -

Haven't you yet grasped that the VFP cannot be anti-military? They ARE military. If you were a combat veteran you might understand.

The VFP appears to oppose war as a substitute for diplomacy; politicians lying us into pointless wars; and Chickenhawks who are eager to send other people's kids off to war, but who refuse to go themselves and won't allow their families to go.

On 13May 1938, an Act was approved to make the 11th of November each year a legal holiday; "a day to be dedicated to the cause of world peace..." (52 Stat. 351; 5 U.S. Code, Sec. 87a). Yes, that's really what it says: "world peace."

Don't try to politicize Veteran's Day.

Chickenhawks alway go to Canada when the heat is on ... clients come first ... got to make the almighty buck ... I wanted to fight the war, but I just could not be there at the right time because I am too important ... you betcha! These words could be worked into Yo-Yo "Anthem for Chickenhawks" and sung on November 11 in the future when he is not serving clients and can find the time, he is very important remember, to serve his country. "Chickenhawks Ueber Alles" might be another name for the YoYo's Chickenhawk anthem.

Nice try at logic, Skeptic, but you couldn’t be more wrong. VFP are NOT military. They are now civilians. Look up the definition. Thanks for the laugh. I love it when I hear, “if you were a combat veteran” or “you didn’t serve so you don’t get to have an opinion.” The constitution says I do get to have an opinion. “The VFP appears to oppose war as a substitute for diplomacy.” This is a blatant lie. The VFP have worked diligently to oppose our military, not our politicians who send our military to war. That is why they go to high school campuses to denigrate our military. They are NOT for our military; they are against it. You can attempt to spin it any way you would like, but it won’t make it reality. I am happy, however, that they didn’t make fools of themselves this year. I commend the parade planners for stifling the VFP protesters.

""..."to the cause of world peace..." "

The CAUSE.....Skeptic.

And what is the CAUSE of world peace?

I beleive it is the American soldier.

It is a day to be dedicated to the American soldiers who have fought for world peace.

It's a day to thank you Skeptic, and all veterans, for having laid it all on the line, for world peace.

Not a day of Protest, by anyone.

In a republic with democratic ideals such as ours every day is a day of protest. If you are not protesting something that you feel should be changed to make our society better, then you are not taking your responsibility as a citizen in a participatory democracy seriously. It is dangerous and un-American to suggest that any day should be off-limits to protest.

I believe it is completely asinine to suggest that the right to peaceable assembly and the right to free speech should be suspended on the day that we have chosen to celebrate those veterans who have fought to preserve these rights for all Americans.

Mike Gruber: To your point...are cops for a peaceful society? Yes.

Its the criminals that make this world a hard place to live. Its the cops that make it a BETTER place.

Same with our military. It is used for honorable objectives. Saddam was a bad guy, no doubt about it. The Taliban were bad guys, no doubt about it.

To have some scum-ball claiming that our troops are "slaughtering innocents" makes my blood boil.

Ishmael, I made $1500 that day. I do what I have to do to keep my family taken care of. Unlike you, I do not depend on someone else to pay my bills.