Isn't it great? Consider that it took Chimp & Darth eight years to do that.

Skeptic, I thought you would have passed out by now.

And to think that those that caused this whole financial debacle are still walking around free and easy. Where are the indictments? Where are the jail sentences? Where is the restitution?

Obama is a perfect example of putting a frat boy in charge and then wondering, in amazement, why all the money is gone from the Friday night pizza and beer fund. He should thank Gutenberg every day for inventing the printing press and Eli Whitney for inventing mass production so that money can be printed 24/7. It appears that American Express has issued a credit card with no credit limit to the "leaders" in Washington. It will not be long until we are paying $10 for a loaf of bread and $15 for a half gallon of milk.

http://my.auburnjournal.com/detail/132763.html

This is a graphic of what Obama has done to our economic situation. A picture says a thousand words.

Ironically, when Bush was running up a debt, the Democrats suddenly became fiscally "concerned" but of course, their way of fixing debt is to increase taxes. Conservatives were hammering Bush for spending like a drunken sailor. (apology to drunken sailors)

Now, the left in this country has no problem with massive debts larger than anything ever seen before. Their plan is to tax us out of debt, but that is like trying to drink yourself sober.

Ken, Would you please stop confusing people with real data.

And things would be different if Sara and John were now running the country?

Wow, do you realize that everyone that has commented on this is at least partially correct.

2049er, Sarah at least would be sitting at her house watching what those Russians are doing, she's have their every move covered.

The plan is to run up the debt then inflate our currency to reduce the amount owedas the value of each dollar shrinks. This means that once the economy starts to heat up we can expect an annual inflation rate of somewhere between 20 and 25%. The federal reserve thinks they can reduce the money supply once this begins but I think that will be very difficult to do. It can also be assumed that IF the Obama administration wants to reduce our standard of living to become more alined with the third world this will also meet that objective.

Pollywog: If we are to lock up those who caused this economy then we must begin with ourselves. It was US who over sopent, over leveraged and lived beyond our means. I do agrree that many of the bankers, brokers and executive on wall street have much to answer for but so does congress and ourselves.

Banker,

Your reply to Pollywog was "dead on". I am guilty of it as we all are to a certain extent. Now I am having to live within my means and not go so "hog wild and pig crazy" with my expenditures. Everyone wanted to buy a nice house and the loans were available, so everyone took a gamble on stated income and adjustable rate APR's. We rolled the dice and hit a seven...Craps! I 'm just glad that I am still in the game for the moment.

We didn't have to sign our names on the dotted lines when the loan paperwork was put in front of us. Most of us that are now suffering knew in our hearts that we really couldn't afford it, but we did it anyway hoping for the best. Sure some may have circumstances that were out of their control, but not as many you would think. We can't claim ignorance on this one, and we can't blame anybody but ourselves!

Isn't it a bit premature to do the victory lap ? Talk about Donald Rumsfeld Delusion Syndrome, and when the economic bombing is over, they're going to throw roses at your feet.... NOT.

The "solution" of the Republican Party of Placer County is to just insert more Bush style Republicans into office, like Doolittle and McClintock, and feast on the ruins.

The solution of the Republican Party of Placer County is to bus old foolish wealthy retired people to teabagger rallies and have them wave signs around fighting every change item on the agenda. Then bus them to casinos where the management picks up part of their retirement check and recycles it back to the crooked politicians who feast high on the hog of lifetime benefits while continuing Bush's failed economic policies.

Furthermore, since it's by now obvious that the Republicans are NOT PAYING TAXES (see the author's blog post over at Red County Placer) they don't really have a say in the matter anymore.

They expect others to be their fiscal sugar daddies and suffer to support their lifestyles--- which is merely whining about everything while being very successful tax deadbeats.

The economy is going to **** no matter what. What the Republican Party fears the most is that the Democrats force the President to do something like spend Federal dollars in this country, for our nation's people, instead of on Federal Defense Contractors and the Pentagon's insatiable desires for bigger and better toys to kill.

Banker is correct...but two wrongs do not make a right....if we all screwed up.. we all should pay the price....not just the private sector who took the bait and spent money based on the government hook line and sinker....the government also needs to stop spending money now.....

mike - skeptic can hold his breath a long time. He has too, given where his head is most of the time. :)

...whereas Rant keeps his head up there just to enjoy the view.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time. }:-0

You can't spend $3 trillion on two reckless foreign adventures and not feel the pinch at home.

The U.S. has already spent $1 trillion on Mr. Cheney's two unnecessary invasions. It will cost $2 trillion more to repay the war debt, replenish military equipment and provide care and treatment for U.S. veterans back home. Many will require lifetime care for brain and spinal injuries. Disability payments are up and will only grow higher. The stress of extended multiple deployments means that a whole generation of U.S. military men and women may now be suffering from long-term mental health issues. The suicide rate in the Army is at its highest level since record-keeping began.

How does a President or anyone reverse the 3.6 million jobs lost since Jan 20th? As Banker hinted to the proverbial economic ball was already rolling and we are all responsible.... Give it some time and we will see how things turn out. Besides too much credit is given to the President just like too much blame is given when the economy turns south. Before we get too excited, remember that record debt helped finance the war efforts and get us out of the Great Depression, but I would agree with Banker and be hesitant before going back to the well.

However with that being said I will end the day with a quote from Edward Langley "What this country needs are more unemployment politicians"

Skeptic: FYI..try researching the economic impact of 9/11.

skeptic - I knew I recognized you from somewhere. :)

lantbarney, Skeptic,

Now gentlemen, there's no need for this type of talk.

OK, you disagree with one another. Fine. Why not just leave it at that.

The digs, the cuts, the crude taunting is beneath you both.

How about looking for something you can both agree on? How about finding something you can become friends over. How about finding a reason to look the other way for once when someone says something ridiculous?

I enjoy coming here as much as the next addict, sometimes I enjoy it most when there's controversy swirling in the air. Sometimes controversy is what makes me bored. Mostly I come here to witness a phenomenon known as written communication.

The people who intrigue me most, well, I won't say because I don't want their heads to get any larger than they already are. But I have a few favorites that might surprise some people.

Even CanyonRant, when her medication is properly balanced, can occasionally captivate me with her facts . It's just all the snotty delivery and redundant themes that make her postings stale and leave a bitter taste like an ale that sat in the sun too long.

Of all the people I've known who post here regularly, I miss Miuwtant. I know he was finding himself wound a little too tightly after a long stretch of highly researched blogs, but I hope he'll return one of these days when he figures out how to participate without ending up with white-knuckles!

The AJ Bloggesphere …

.....is a place for all ideas. We may not agree, but that doesn't mean we can't lighten up once in a while, look past our differences, and bask in the commonality that we all share.............being Americans.

Hope to see a few of you next week at the parade.

"...two reckless foreign adventures...."

"...two unnecessary invasions...." --Skeptic

Just thought about this a bit.

On other posts as well, Skeptic is constantly grinding away at how corrupt every aspect, theory and practice, of how American National Security is proposed, decided upon, and executed. Went as far as claiming Osama bin Laden was a myth created by the CIA. And here's what I feel is the contradiction in his ways....Does it help any solidier of our military to fight the enemy, do his/her duty, and get home safely with folks constantly debasing the justifications of our country's actions? I don't think so.

Is that the send off they need to hear, "Good luck, be safe, and remember it's all for nothing"?

Is that the welcome home they need, "Good job, bin Laden is a myth and your CIC is a sociopath"?

Is it easier for them to cope with the hardship of battle with clear objectives and unflinching support? I would think so.

So Skeptic, why do you add so much to this acidic atmosphere of wild conspiracies that alienate our soldiers from serving their country honorably and with the upmost resolve?

skimammoth,

You asked a very good question when you said, "How does a President or anyone reverse the 3.6 million jobs lost since Jan 20th"?

If we want to prosper again we'll need to add value to everything we do. If you work by the hour then you'll need to give your boss more for his payroll dollar. If you are a manufacturer you'll need to produce better goods that entice people to give you their hard-earned cash.

It's about adding value to everything that people pay money to have.

If we can do that, then our economy will revive.

However, since government has a limited ability to add value to anything due to the bureaucratic nature of its structure, don't be looking there for help. Congress could lower federal income taxes, and that might help if the banks would also start making loans again, but the government model as a whole is not going to add value to much of anything.

Americans need to look seriously at the way we've spent money we didn't have, borrowed instead of saved, and tend to blame everyone but ourselves for the mess we're in. It's time to add back value to our country. If we can do that then we'll be OK. If not, then I'm afraid we'll never be the same again.

By the way, Skeptic. Obviously you are referring to Bush and Cheney when you say "Chimp and Darth", in your first post on this thread, and they should be held responsible for their part in running up the deficit. But, what about the Democrat controlled Congress? Those folks don't just sit by idly watching the president and vice president spend money hand over fist. In fact, the president and vice president have limited power to spend any money at all.

It takes Congress to appropriate money that is spent by the U.S. Government. The Democrats have held the majority in both houses for years now. But you already know that so why aren't you railing against them?

It appears to me that you have an imbalanced perspective when it comes to Republicans. By the way, and don't take this as a put-down, are you married to C_R?

Nice clear post Greg.

Sometimes I fear we are adressing the symptoms of these econ downturns and not the disease.

To stay with that....are the last several recessions the same fundamental problem?

For example these bail outs....if they can't fail, then we are still sick, right?

Part of me says let's just let it all come down....Great Depression Part II.....so at least by the end of my life (35-40 yrs?)

I can enjoy the fruits of the rebuilding process (if/then). Selfish perhaps, I know. I'm tired of these bs quick-fixes and ill defined addictive social programs. These recessions are becoming part of the game, greed and special interest have too much access to the wheelhouse. Where are our leaders? I either want Americans get our country back or.....well, or decide which is better: to live on our knees or die on our feet.

"Nice clear post Greg"

meant 10:54pm....

(11:06pm, which I just read, I've been advised by my attorney to show no emotion one way or the other)

Mike,

Yes, I think we're still sick when it comes to money, but it's too early to tell if we'll adopt the all-out "depression" way of looking at it.

What I mean by that is, in order to look like "depression" spenders, people would need to become so tight with a buck that we begin to resemble our grandparents in the way we struggle to let go of a dollar.

I'm not sure we've "hurt" enough for that to happen. But it still might.

You're right, there is no quick fix.

On one hand, if we go back to the same basic economic mentality that got us to where we are, then we'll just be "consuming" again once we have a few extra bucks. If we do that we're just going back to our vomit.

On the other hand, if we start saving money, spend it only on items and services that really add something valuable to our lives, look for ways to pay cash instead of using revolving credit, then we'll be alright.

If you look at the way people were at the end of the "Great Depression", you'll notice they were much different than we are today. They were frugal!

It's been mentioned that they brought themselves out of the financial debacle with the war spending of WWII. Yes, I'll agree with that, but those people were different spenders than we are now, and the money spent on war-time items was done with a single purpose and not just to satisfy the individual's desire to "have" things. No, their spending was purpose driven, not consumer …

Mike, .......also........I'm wondering what it would be like if we "..just let it all come down.." Our parents and grandparents had skills that most people today know nothing about, so I'm not sure we could recover if our economy hit that level of failure.

How many wives do you know who could make biscuits from scratch, sew you a new shirt, and put up thirty quart jars of tomatoes? How many men do you know who could put a new roof on their house, install a head gasket on the engine of their car, and sit contentedly in the evening listening to a radio for their only source of outside entertainment and news? Not many these days would have all those skills and be able to live that simply.

But, we're not all greedy and lazy, so there's still hope!

I just hope there are enough people left who have the survivor mentality who can pull our country back up from the brink of social and financial collapse.

I agree with you, government "programs" aren't going to be the "fix" in the long-run. There is no value in "giving" something away to a mass of people. The back-bone of American prosperity has always been the people who sacrifice luxury for frugality, save cash for emergencies and investments, and work diligently at performing manual tasks in the most efficient way they can.

If we can get back to that way of treating our money then it's a safe bet we will do just fine.

Skeptic, You forgot the trillions of wasted money spent to save the planet (and the fish). Of course it made algore a billionaire.

Mike - You confuse "support the troops" with "support the policy of unending war."

I repudiate the greed and lies that sent our military to occupy tiny nations for the benefit of Big Oil. And I doubt many US troops would say they are fighting to for political abstractions or to keep Karzai in power. They're fighting to keep their buddies alive until they all can come home.

Greg - You are correct. The Congress erred by handing a blank check to Mr. Bush and not demanding an accounting.

Who is "C_R?"

Instead of a memorial for those civilians killed on 9-11...we spend the money on a battleship the New Yorker..this sends a clear message...

Hillary's choice of words today...says it all for those doubters of 9-11..... "Strength Forged Through Sacrifice'".

Words are very revealing.......

Hillary will be running against Obama. She has a lot better foreign policy view.

Aw, come on, Greg. Are you trying to ruin our fun? Is what we are doing any worse than accusing CR of being on medication?

Ken Campbel, a true Republicn, forgets that Bush came into offce with a half-trillion $ surplus, then spent $6 trillion deficit, to double the debt to $11 trillion. It took Bush 8 yrs; it's idiotic to think Bush'is spending rate could be turned around in one year.

Lant,

Yes, it is no worse. In fact, it's just as bad and I should never have fired a hasty shot at that dark figure residing below the rim. Sometimes the target is so big it's hard to resist. Truth is, tongue-in-cheek can be fun if no one gets left in the parking lot with a black eye and no ride home.

Canyon, I apologize for taking this cheap shot at you.

Also.....Skeptic, I'm a bit skeptical myself that you claim to not know who C_R is. Either way, sorry I attempted to entertain myself at your expense. CanyonRat would do well to be married to a man like you. I mean that in the good sense for both of you.

Please accept my apology in that regard, and also I'd like to thank you for admitting that Bush did not run up this huge debt by himself. The Democrats captured the majority in both houses of Congress two years into W's first term and they were truly in control of the budget after that.

That's why I say they could end the war if they wanted. For some reason the average person doesn't make that connection. Liberals give Congress a complete pass even though they pay lip-service about despising this "illegal war", which is probably the most obvious example of blatant partisan politics, and one that they are constantly accusing Republicans of.

Please accept my congratulations for being the "honest man" today. For that I will admit something too............

.....Hillary Clinton is quietly becoming a statesman, and I'm finding myself softening toward her. I know she's just biding her time, but it's refreshing to see how well she can play nice.

Greg,

Thanks for your thoughts. If skeptic is who I think he is, then we are actually friends. He can be pretty funny. I do not take offense at what he says and I doubt he takes offense at what I say, at least, most of the time. Who knows, maybe one of these days . . .

Bush Administration inherited the dot com bubble as well as "rubinomics" that lead to the housing bubble. 911 was devised during the Clinton administration and applied as we all know in 2001.

"Early in 2000, the Federal Reserve had increased interest rates six times, to control [the runaway economy that was beginning to lose speed. As a result, dot-com bubble burst on March 10, 2000. U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission fined top investment firms like Citigroup and Merrill Lynch millions of dollars for misleading investors. The Dot-com bubble crash wiped out $5 trillion in market value of technology companies from March 2000 to October 2002" no2forclosures.com

The last election was a vote for "change". The change we are getting is short changing the taxpayer by gross government takeover of our economy. Trying to give the Obama administration a pass by blaming the Bush administration is ridiculous. During the last 20 years our representative type of government has lost sight of we the people. Instead we are becoming the People's Republic with no sovereignty.

Makes sense to me... and I love the cryptic nature of words and it appears your the only one that understood the true meaning....your a good comrad....march on.

Hey Campbell, how much did you contribute towards paring down that big whopper of a deficit this year ?

.

.

.

..... thought so.

CanyonRant,

Let's say Dr. Campbell paid $100k in federal income tax last year. Or, maybe he didn't make much so he paid nothing. So what? What does your question have to do with the price of tea in China?

A better question is, why hasn't the Democrat controlled Congress stopped the big illegal war they spent six years condemning? Have you an answer?

.

.

.

......didn't think so.

I do think you'd do better answering that question than attempting a silly slam on Ken Campbell.

Ken Campell.

I'm glad you are so concerned about the spending of the country. Yet upon further reflection, you've been a lapdog for J Doolittle for what, a dozen years or so? Plus you've been mysteriously silent about deficit spending for what, forever maybe? Except of course with Obama having to deal with the carpetbagger days of the last 8 years. Thanks for writing in.

When you show some consistent backbone, instead of this letter which is no more than a drive by shooting, then we'll be ready to talk.

I too am concerned about federal spending. When you are ready to engage in a discussion about why the deficit is where it is this year, then I'd be happy to chat with you.

Chris,

I have heard Ken Campbell criticize President Bush for not being a true fiscal conservative. He's written letters to the editor of this newspaper and expressed those same concerns in writing during the Bush presidency.

I would love to hear the two of you discuss this further because I know you each have a different perspective.

This might be what you consider a "drive by shooting", the way it's presented, and it is pretty cryptic. But I suspect Ken is merely doing a basic posting of facts after J_P and gulliver have been calling for "facts" all this past week whenever they disagree with a posted comment. I can understand both positions.

gregcalac--

Thanks for the posts yesterday....11/7 in the early AM.

I really appreciate you views and explanations on American Econ 101.

One of the many thoughts I had was regarding the WWII spending that had a major impact on recovering from the Depression. That being, we didn't have Target, Home Depot, and Costco's overflowing with MADE IN CHINA goods back in the late 30's-early 40's.....so the money that was finally starting to circulate in the economy wasn't taking a global route. I would think now, it is tougher to spend in ways that more directly add to the health of the US economy, thus, a longer downturn.

I strongly agree with your questioning the endurance and capabilities of average Americans today should they face the hardships of a major financial meltdown (Depression). The explosion of how much technology has changed us in the last 30 years has occured at such a fast pace I'm not sure enough time was spent on "cultural navigation". I think we've headed out on a branch but think we are still heading for the top of and endless tree. Gonna be interesting to watch America try and back up someday.

My favorite "Far Side" cartoon was two ol' ranch hands by a fire, one holding a ketttle and says, "Latte Jed?"

Anyway, thanks for the posts and the info!

Atfer WWII, The USA had the only store in the world. Every one in the world had to buy goods made in the USA. It was not until the late 60's that the world economy recovered enough from WWII to compete with goods made in the USA. American business thought every one was buying our goods because of their quality. Other countries started to produce goods of better quality and lower price. Our automobile industry is the best example of this.

Until the price of our goods and the quality of our goods become competitive in the world market we will continue to have job losses and an economic down turn. Taxes and over burdensome regulation are not helping.

But we are paying. Having to eliminate wants (recreation, dinner out occasionally, etc.) to cover needs. But the financial experts that chose to ignore the warning signs years ago, opted to ride the wave of obscene profits, and getting their asses financially covered as THEIR bank accounts grew exponentially overseas, are the ones we need to see hung out to dry. Restitution needs to be made. These people have no morality or conscience and if we do not stop them now that they are exposed, there will be no stopping them later. You think we have it hard now? HA!!

I have never been a spender. Frugality is my middle name, simply because it makes sense. Always want to have more cents (sense) than dollars. The richest man is not the one that has the most, it is the one who needs the least!

Yes Polly, Let's screw over US corporations and demand higher pay for more unskilled workers until we produce nothing and become a 3rd world country. Opps! It is already happening.

Bush and the republican congress inexcusably brought the deficit to historic highs. Obama and the democratic congress are just making it worse. Blind loyalty to one party while pointing fingers at the other party doesn't help. It's simply a way of avoiding the truth, which makes it impossible to pursue a solution. In a democracy we get what we deserve, and we have been voting for people who tell us what we want to hear instead of the people who tell us what we need to hear.

Bush and WHAT Republican Congress?

Mike, the 108th and 109th Congress.

I stand corrected.

I didn't think there was a Republican majority in the 109'th.

Auburntom, I agree with you; however, Obama/Pelosi/Reid and others in power at this time are blowing away the deficit numbers that past régimes have created. Let’s call it like it is.

Patrick, I can't disagree with you there. As George W Bush might say, "it's a choice between horrible and horribler".