What a bigoted and biased vewpoint you have David.

Not everyone who lived in our society back 50 years ago was white, dressed alike, ate meat and potatoes, or were as you project.

Is there not a place somewhere between the obviously artificial society you pretend existed, and one where nobody speaks the same language, watches porn on broadcast TV channels, thinks homosexuality is as common as heterosexuality, and so on?

How about a society where everyone has equal opportunity, but their outcomes in life are based on their merit?

How about a society where people are judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin?

How about a society where people take responsibility for themselves, their families, their communities in that order?

How about a society where pedophiles never get out of jail?

There are many flaws with the society you described, but there are many flaws with the one you are supporting.

The Y-S train has derailed itself publicly again arguing for institutionalize ignorance and provincialism in the modern age.

Strange as it seems YS is right on with his response to David's letter.

David: We don't have to reverse any course to relive the inglorious past... it's still among us.

We have moved forward... and yes... now and then a step back! More and more it is LESS among us. I continue to have hope...but I also see these bias trends in ALL segments of society... not just the White! I agree that individuals need to take more responsibility......

"YS is right on with his response to David's letter..." Yes, because he gives substance to Mr. Klinghorn's arguments.

Hey, quit bashing the Neanderthals !

Seriously. What is wrong with the society Y_S proposes? Would you rather have:

A society where there is no equal opportunity, and outcomes in life are never based on their merit?

Or a society where people are judged by the color of their skin rather than their character?

Or a society where people refuse to take responsibility for themselves, their families, their communities in that order?

Or where pedophiles never go to jail? They just move to France and get praised for their contribution to "The Arts?"

Come to think of it - since we seem to be headed in that direction, maybe that IS what you want.

YS...very nice... words of wisdom.

Lant, lant, lant...

What you just did is known as the False Dichotomy, a logic fallacy that invalidates your argument. You provided only two choices when in fact there are plenty of other ones. Worse yet, you accuse others of wanting to select all of your spurious "choices." What's up with that? You're an educated man. You know better.

BTW, if, as you allege, "pedophiles never go to jail", it's only the fault of attorneys. Like you.

Hey, Jack (fedallah) you were in school in Placer County at the same time I was, please tell me what was so neanderthalic about those years. At least common sense and a hand shake were still in vogue. We have come so far that we have lost all sense of common values of decency and making positive contributions to society. This is known as a "ME" world. Government, on a one way mission has promised so much with so little and actually sold the promise to so many, that the road back will take a long time, if we are even able to turn it around.

It would appear that David could not intellectually understand the purpose of Dale's letter...such a shame as David must not follow the news reports or investigate any of the intellectual matters or concerns at hand.

skeptic - wow! You sound like Barry. Sorry you do not like my humor. I acknowledge the logical flaw, but thought the post was appropriate, given earlier comments by you, CR and the big F.

Bravo, Yosemite Sam. You hit the nail on the proverbial head once again.

Y_S is absolutely correct!

My wife and I talk about when we were kids all the time. You never heard a cuss word on TV, now primetime TV shows now have many cuss words or sexual references each episode.. You never saw people flaunting their sexual preferences, what was "their business" was kept as "their business". People actually cared about other people and were friendly and respectful when they passed each other on the street. Kids were seen and not heard unless they were adressed by an adult. People were actually judged by the chrachter that they possessed instead of what they have, or what they could do for you. People actually took pride in what they did and knew how to work, nowdays most everybody wants top dollar for mediocre work. Before political correctness you could get an honest answer to your questions now everyone lies to everybody else, and tells everybody "what they want to hear" because they are affraid to speak their mind. Oh things are so much better now...liberal thinking has ruined this great nation.

BornHere,

Couldn't agree with you more.

I'm 46 and already feel like I'm on another planet. Can't imagine what it is like for older folks to look back...

Is there anyplace one can officially pledge allegiance to another Generation?

Um, does anybody realize that 50 years ago was 1959 and we were fast approaching the '60's? Just a reality check.Peace.

"Before political correctness you could get an honest answer to your questions now everyone lies to everybody else, and tells everybody "what they want to hear" because they are afraid to speak their mind." "Kids were seen and not heard unless they were addressed by an adult." "People actually cared about other people and were friendly and respectful when they passed each other on the street."

I remember those days. I grew up in those days. You knew who wore the pants in the family by god. Who made all the decisions. The little woman never got out of line, 'cause if she did you could just back hand her. The kids, oh yea, don't want to hear what they think, just beat 'em...that'll keep them in line. Should your daughter be a "bad girl" she was sent away, so people could continue to be friendly and respectful and keep "their business...their business." "People were judged by the character that they possessed"... so long as they possessed it in the right line, bus, lunch counter... ah yes, the good ol' days.

Rolandmc,

I'm sorry that you grew up in a dysfunctional family. No wonder you are so bitter. My children called adults by Mr. and Misses, in your opinion, it seems that having respect is incorrect. All the kids I grew up with and ran around with understood right from wrong. In grade school if you were going to visit a friend where you could target practise you took your 22 to school and then rode to your friends home on the bus. We all tried to get away with minor indiscretions but usually got caught and punished. Mom always had eyes in the back of her head. Grownups told jokes and cursed but no in the presence of children. Our children today, if their parents let them get away with it, try to emulate gangsters and ladies of the night. Drive by Placer High at lunch time, quite a show.

In the past people tended to stay out of other peoples "business". Police were respected not vilified and unlike today they were friendly.

We now live in a hate filled world where even our own society is split worse then it has ever been, there are no consensus makers, just adversaries that are bought and paid for by lobbyists, (they are educated to be adversarial) most of them have a law degree.

People of color are still discriminated against, women are still discriminated against. "How about a society where people are judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin? Yeah how about one? Just because we elected a black president does not mean prejudice stopped immediately. "artificial society you pretend existed" Um white bread crackers is all yosemite allows in his world. Seriously you guys YS is the one of the most bigoted, knuckle-dragging neanderthals on this site. We would all step back in time in his make believe world. Where women were RAPED, BEATEN and held PRISONER in their own homes. One where, if a minority raised his voice or acted out of line, he could be put in his place by MURDER.

Thank God for the Sixties.

and what is anyone on here going to do about any of it? sorry to have to remind you, old-timers of whatever stripe, but the culture continues to evolve however it evolves regardless of your longing for some kind of imagined (or even "real") yesteryear. point the finger of blame wherever it suits you, the world will continue rolling on regardless.

"why... back in MY day..."

thanks, gramps. you're a one-man museum. and what good does it do?

appealing to the Good Ol Days is pointless. arguments for self-reliance and responsibility and looking our for one another ought to stand on something more than rose-colored hindsight trifocals and "Leave It To Beaver" re-runs. Y_S made some good points about where we should continually be heading; let's not pretend that the 1950s or any other long-gone era actually represented a fulfillment of that potential, shall we?

MR, you seem to have a problem with personal responsibility. I believe it is a positive attribute, you seem to be saying it has nothing to do with moving forward.

We now live in a hate filled world where even our own society is split worse then it has ever been, there are no consensus makers, just adversaries that are bought and paid for by lobbyists, (they are educated to be adversarial) most of them have a law degree.

What part of my statement do you disagree?

Moving forward requires agreement on principles as well as actions.

Your calling people "gramps" in a derogatory manner solves nothing and adds to the divisiveness.

We should learn by our mistakes and that requires revisiting history, not visiting the Internet blogs that only support what you have chosen as being correct.

RolandMc, Marginal elite, & ChuxxR,

In my family the women were revered and the leaders of the clan. They were happy to work alongside the men of the family as they all had a common goal. The men of the family were happy to assist the women do the inside chores as well. Everybody just did what had to be done to help our family thrive. No one ever beat any children but we got spankings if we were out of line. The only unfair treatment I ever received was by my stepfather who was a product of the 60's and a jackass like you three (he thought rules didn't apply to him either). I never knew the difference in the color of skin until my product of the sixties stepfather showed me, luckily I don't have any racial predjudices.

Now we are left with a welfare minded gimme gimme society that the sixties created. I would like to thank the three of you and your kind with your sixties attitude for showing me the wrong way to live. I can happily say I have never drawn any federal aid, never received any welfare or disability checks, and have always had a job if I wanted one.

Fourgen, BH, ME's remarks were directed at all of us.

BTW BH I didn't know you were that young.

actually - THIS is what i wrote about "personal responsibility":

[[ arguments for self-reliance and responsibility and looking ou[t] for one another ought to stand on something more than rose-colored hindsight trifocals and "Leave It To Beaver" re-runs. ]] -- (should have read "looking out" not "looking our")

So, sorry if i "seem to have a problem with" [it] or if I "seem to be saying it has nothing to do with moving forward" -- I actually said nothing of the sort. What i actually said was - well, it's right there above, but I'll rephrase it: There are good ways to behave and there are good (ie effective) ways to persuade people of them, but constantly referring to how things "used to be" back when folks cared and men were men or whatever does nothing but serve to deepen the chasm between you and whomever you are hoping to persuade, as well as being factually questionable. I was NOT saying that the values espoused are questionable, merely the methods used to espouse them. See?

In fact, I think I was pretty explicit in the very next sentence:

[[ Y_S made some good points about where we should continually be heading; let's not pretend that the 1950s or any other long-gone era actually represented a fulfillment of that potential, shall we? ]]

sorry about the "gramps" thing, though, and the unnecessary smarm -- gen-xers like myself occasionally bristle at BabyBoomer lefty-selfrighteousness and GreatestGeneration[tm] Groupthink Scoldings. Guess I'm getting old.

Born-Here,

well weren't you fortunate? At least until the step entered the picture. I would think that was an example of the fact that there are evil people in any generation.

"Now we are left with a welfare minded gimme gimme society that the sixties created. I would like to thank the three of you and your kind with your sixties attitude for showing me the wrong way to live. I can happily say I have never drawn any federal aid, never received any welfare or disability checks, and have always had a job if I wanted one."

The "gimmee-society" has its roots in the 1920's. The "me" society in the 70's.

I'm very happy for you that you have always had the opportunity to work and have been so able bodied but I really don't buy your luck as something ton which attach pride.