Imposed firefighter contract includes
12% cut in pay, benefits
City calls it ‘last, best and final’ offer
After months of negotiations, the city of Auburn has implemented a contract with the Auburn Firefighters Association that will result in a 12 percent loss in pay and benefits. Firefighters and their family members packed the council chambers Monday night to watch the council unanimously approve the city’s “last, best and final” offer to firefighters. The association has been in negotiations with the city since March and a mediator has determined negotiations to be at an impasse. The firefighters’ previous contract expired June 30. “We have made every effort we could to reach an agreement with them,” Mayor Mike Holmes said at Monday’s meeting. “The negotiator has not proposed anything new, we’re waiting. If something new is put on the table we will take a look at it.” The association has recently retained Reed and Associates to represent it. Richard A. Reed said Monday night that he has sent two letters to the city requesting further conference. “Auburn city has decided they do not want to meet with us,” he said. The city’s offer includes up to a 3.15 percent reduction in base salary and 9 percent of the employee’s PERS contribution. The city’s offer states the pay and benefits would be restored if the city’s economic situation improves. No layoffs would occur while this plan is in place. In other business Monday, the council heard a status report from Councilmembers Kevin Hanley and Bill Kirby on the city’s 14 commissions and committees. The report, requested by Holmes, was to evaluate and update the groups’ missions and practices. “I attended a number of meetings for a number of these groups and they seem a little disorganized and did not understand the rules for how a meeting is to be conducted,” Kirby said. Among the recommendations for these commissions were that they: -Receive a summary of meeting guidelines including information on the Brown Act and ethics. -Rotate the chair position on a yearly basis -Make biannual reports to the council -Provide minutes to city council -Operate on an annual budget cycle The report was given to staff and will be put forth for action at a future council meeting. Michelle Miller-Carl can be reached at michellem@goldcountrymedia.com.
-----------------------------------
Auburn City Council
In other business Monday, the Auburn City Council: • Authorized participation in the 2009 Proposition 1A Securitization Program, allowing the city to receive upfront in cash the $353,000 in property tax money withheld by the state to balance its budget. • Appointed vacancies on the Auburn Arts Commission to Brian Jagger, Aloha Baumgarten, Mary Beauchamp, Marti Niles and Randy Mealhow. Councilman Bill Kirby cast a dissenting vote on Baumgarten and Beauchamp because they were not Auburn citizens. • (Acting as the Auburn Urban Development Authority) approved the three remaining members to the Streetscape History and Art Advisory Committee. Restaurant owner Ty Rowe will represent the Old Town Business Association; Business owner Harvey Roper will represent the Auburn Endurance Capital Committee; and Marti Niles will represent the Auburn Arts Commission.
Keywords
city of Auburn, Auburn Firefighters Association, Mayor Mike Holmes, Richard A. Reed, PERS, Kevin Hanley, Bill Kirby, 2009 Proposition 1A Securitization Program, Auburn Arts Commission, Brian Jagger, Aloha Baumgarten, Mary Beauchamp, Marti Niles, Randy Mealhow, Auburn Urban Development Authority, Streetscape History and Art Advisory Committee, Ty Rowe, Old Town Business Association, Harvey Roper, Auburn Endurance Capital Committee,
|
Change Location:
|
Come on auburn, don't let this happen.
When will the citizens start holding the elected officals of Auburn accountable for their actions? After listening to the council meeting this evening it sounds to me like public safety is not a priority! Fair wages and adequate staffing levels of fire engines seem to be the least
concern of elected officals. Savining money to keep bond ratings at the highest levels possible for the street scape project seem more important than what matters; yours and my safety! Business has to be suffering because of the poor choices made by this council!! Maybe redevlopement funds should be funneled into more important things than Mr. Bob Richardson's legacy...Thank god Mr. Bob Richardson and his family live outside the city of Auburn...if for some reason tragety strikes at least he doesn't have to count on the substandard protection he has pushed his fire chief to enforce. I bet he felt safe during the 49 Fire!!! To bad the wind wasn't blowing harder! Maybe he would have had a little more respect for the women and men that put their lives on the line to protect peoples lives and property!
It's time for the community to press people like Dr. Cirby and Mr. Nesbit in to doing the right thing!!! You supported public safety during your campagin, but unfortunatly you forgot where you came from. YOU SHOUL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!
Well I guess for me to make any sense of this article I'd have to know what 12% less means....
What are they currently getting paid?
Is the entire City Council made up of old boy Republican? If so, employees will never get a break until they are replaced. Republicans major in smoozing and oldboyism, but when the chips are down, employees suffer and big business thrives. Keep voting thiese dinosaurs into office and you know what city workers will receive ... it is sharpened on one end.
Kirby and Nesbitt are token councilmen as revealed by their caving into Holmes and the others.
I respect all of our city employees. However, doing what is right for the community and staying within our budget considering the state of the economy is more important than caving to a union that will not negotiate in good faith.
Dr Bill Kirby
I would add that, as Mayor Holmes said last night, we have made it clear that if the union presents any new proposals we will be happy to meet to discuss them. In spite of what Mr Reed says in this article, no new proposals have been received.
Dr Bill Kirby
I feel sorry for the Firefighters, apparently Mayor Holmes is taking advise from his brother ( regarding negotiations ) Jim Holmes who is a county supervisor.
The City Council obviously has misplaced priorities. I doubt its the firefighters not negotiating in good faith. If the stories we read about Placer County are any indication, the city is following in the county's footsteps and beating up our public safety professionals. Sad. Very sad.
I dont feel sorry for the Firefighters, Police, etc, as if they are exempt from the money trough they have been feeding from? Well folks the trough has run out of money for everyone and its time cuts were made as the rest of us have had to do with less, I wish the county would explore contracting out the services, I wonder what the cost savings would be....but again the unions would be holding us taxpayers hostage.....good work council
The city can't print money like Obama does. Welcome to socialism. Government is running out of other peoples money. What do you want the city to cut to pay it's employees. Jack is a union hack and always has been.
Use all the money collected by Save our Salmon to pay for more money for the Firefighters.
Great to have If-it-is-not-illegal-it's-ethical Johnnie Green back spouting his mindless Republican drivel in support of his fellow Republcans.
If I read the info on the cities webpage..
Firefighters..top step apprx 50,000 per year..plus 6% for other incentives...plus 5% longevity at years 7 11 and 20..SO an 11 year FF gets 50,000 + 6% (3000 )(all incentives AKA education or other certs) + 10% ( 5000) longevity (years 7 and 11) SO apprx 58,000 per year... The 9% pers mentioned is probably what the city paid into pers in the employees which adds to the future retiree pay. For example... Employee works 20 years..and is 50 years old... 3%@50 is 3x20= 60% of pay plus that 9% paid in employees name = 69% of salary. Thats how I read it.
Where's the cut in pay for all the elected officials? I hear about furloughs, cuts in pay, cuts to benefits, etc. for the common working person, but no cuts in pay for those elitist that still take the cream off the top. I can't wait for the next election! Y'all are going down in my book.
Looks like the City is getting this one right. Don't take that wrong - we absolutly need our public safety officials and I support them. So maybe our State and other government officials should start looking at nonessential jobs that can be contracted out (if the funds are available) and keeping our firefighters, highway patrol, etc in place. Maybe Caltrans has a few to many people? That being said you may want to take a look at some local fire agency compensation packages - these are generally good men and women, but the system has let their compensation packages get beyond a sustainable range. The bottom line is the public employee unions are a very big problem - they are running our government. It will be difficult for the good people who benifit from these unions to understand the problems they create, but if they could somehow take the bold steps needed to initiate change from within we could make great strides to getting our State and Country back.
Everyone at the City of Auburn took a 10% cut including City Council members and there will be no bonuses for anyone this year. Of course City Council members only make $300 per month so our 'pay' dropped to $270/ month. The unfortunate thing is that we cannot talk directly to the employees to discuss openly the City's financial situation but have to go through their union negotiators. If we could all sit down together in an open forum everything would be more productive.
Dr Bill Kirby
flyingsurgeon
How much of these cuts could have been avoided if the state would not have forcibly borrowed from it?
CA04_voter:
I honestly cannot answer this question. I do not think the state borrowing affected us that much. The big hit has been the severe decline in sales tax revenue.
Again, I am available as always to discuss any topic with anyone to the extend that I can and am able.
Dr Bill Kirby
home 8852124 (listed)
flyingsurgeon210@yahoo.com
Everyone needs to absorb the current bad economic conditions, the unions need to understand that.
Auburn, I am astounded at the mear mention of cutting our fire dept pay. First, I can say with certainty that these fine men and women aren't there doing their job because of the money. Public safety is their number one priority! Any councilperson who doesn't maintain the fact that public safety is a priority too has lost their mind!!
The fire dept is already understaffed and actually was already underpaid before these rounds of pay cuts. From what I understand this is a paycut ON TOP OF losing 2 staff positions. What's next? My concern as a citizen is whether or not my family, my house, and not to mention all of our businesses in town, will be saved in case of a medical emergency or fire. In light of the recent 49 Fire, I can't understand why personal projects, like Steetscape and the monies set for that project, would even go forward, especially in this economy.
City Council: what is your priority, really?? I'm left confused, in question of, and downright ashamed at your behavior and the lack of loyalty to the very citizens that voted you in office. Auburn: please write your city council and share your feelings about why public safety is your priority too.
Oh, and Dr. Kirby, I'm so sorry you lost $30 of your annual city council pay. I'm sure that was devastating to your family.
Lynn. I thought I read the streetscape is under ground infrastructure repairs..ie. water lines etc. Would that improve water supply for fires? HERES what I think.... many are going to look back at 2009 and say... times were good then... so that tells ya where the future is going.....
lonewolf: Good thought. I don't know about Streetscape infrastructure improving the water supply, but I believe that these projects, like Streetscape, aren't as essential as maintaining public safety at this time. I'd love to see our streets "beautified" and as the claim goes, to increase business and tax revenue. I'm just saying that in these hard times, we need to prioritize our needs. I think the council needs to get back to basics.
Lynn74 and others:
First of all I only mentioned the reduction of pay of City Council members to illustrate that we shared in the pay cut and to point our that we also do not do it for the money and are the lowest paid workers in the City. Second, streetscape money is not now and has never been available for salaries and benefits. I am not 'ashamed' of the decisions we have had to make in the best interests of the whole community and we have followed the recommendations of the Fire Chief. When there is no money, we cannot spend it.
Dr Bill Kirby
How much is 12%?
In theory these guys and gals didn't take this job to get rich. I realize that what they do is noble and should be rewarded, but the fact is that they still work for the city. A city that apprently is having money issues much like every other city in the country. If my company isn't doing well financially I would probably be laid off. It sounds like both parties need to come to the table and work on a acceptable solution.
Bottom line...Firefighters work for the city.
I'm looking at fiscal responsibility. That's really sad that we can't borrow from these projects in tough times. Basics & priorities - we should be more concerned about public safety and less concerned about what color the flowers will be on High Street. If there is no money, I understand some things have to be cut. I'd like to see government go back to basics and get creative with other types of cutbacks. Also, isn't there a reserve in funds for just this type of event? It would have been nice if the City could have held on to possible businesses coming into the city, like Costco. It seemed to slip away from us. There's our revenue and tax money! Lastly, seems that I've been hearing these past few months when issues about our fiscal future have come up that the City of Auburn is doing better than others and we are fiscally solvent. Why are we at this point now with public funds? Let's get creative and think outside the box; I'm sure old school businesses are doing exactly that to save their employees. How about this city?
We have used $400,000 of our reserve and have about $2.5 million left which is not a large cushion if a disaster hits, As to Costo they altered their plans due to the economy but are still interested in the Nevada Street site when things change. We are negotiating with several companies to fill the space at the airport which will add jobs to the area and tax revenue to the City. The City of Auburn is in a much better position than surrounding communities because we have been fiscally responsible. We are open to any ideas.
Dr Bill Kirby
again home is listed 8852124
flyingsurgeon210@yahoo.com
COME ON THOSE GUY'S PUT THERE LIFE ON THE LINE EVERYDAY .DID THE CITY BOARD TAKE ANY CUT'S .CUT SOME OF THE MONEY THAT THE CITY COUNCIL GETS. THIS SUCKS .ASK THOSE FROM THE 49 ER FIRE IF THEY WOULD CUT ANY MONEY TO FIRE MEN / WOMEN. THE ONLE STREETSCAPE IS SCAPE GOAT.BAD DEAL SO YOUR HOUSE MAY BURN .OR THE CITY IF IT DOES TET THE CITY FIGUR OUT HOW TO PUT IT OUT
SORRY ABOUT SPELLING I WAS TO PI--- OFF AND WENT TO FAST
I get that people are upset about reductions in pay but our household has take huge hits and everyone keeps thinking government jobs "can't be hit". Well, guess what, tax revenues are down, because all of us out here for the last year have been scrimping to get by and not buying as much because we don't have as much. Guess what that equals: cuts to the other side - government jobs, pay scales, and no one is exempt. It always takes government a year to catch up because of the way they manage their budget cycles.
People get real. It's a recession and it's not over. Unions better start getting realistic too, or their days are numbered too. Oh....I think that's already happening and that's whats scaring people like Jack Sanchez, who drops right to name calling and partisan garbage throwing. Really productive there, Jacko.
Well, money doesn't grow on trees unless you're in Washington DC, where you can print your own and devalue everyone else's cash.
Thanks Dr. Kirby for being an open and accessible public servant.
Thank you Dr. Kirby for the answers to my questions. I myself have been on both sides of the fence as an employer and an employee. I have felt that when you need to make cuts, that it's important to do whatever else it takes in other areas well before you have to take money from your employees - they are the ones doing the work out there. With that said, here are some back-to-basics ideas for your consideration.
Cut office costs throughout all depts (lights half on, what-can -you-live -without office products and equipment), restructuring in depts (like the fire dept did), less road repair (only overlay and filling potholes, just the necessary safety issues), I'm not sure if there are car allowances, but if so, cut that temporarily, water lawns less, furlough day instead of salary cut, ask employees to find areas that they think need to be cut and things they can live without, and temporarily halt less time sensitive and crucial projects throughout depts.
It is my sincere hope that the city council takes a look at these suggestions to help the city as a whole to get through these tough times together. Thank you.
We shouldn't be mad about this we should be mad when the council approves pay increases for managment in a couple months. The council straight out lied to the public about how negotiations have been going. You can't tell me they haven't heard any new or counter offers from the firemen. They just are refusing to negotiate just like they said in the council meeting.
The bottom line is the City Council and City Manager have different priorities. They would rather spend money on consultants and parking lot overlays ( over $150,000) they see no need to keep quality police and fire personnel. When you pay you emplyees well below the median your service level drops that far as well. It just seems to me the city is taking the easy way out by forcing pay cuts to a union that has no way of fighting back. They can't strike they have no money for legal representation. The city has basically strong armed public safety and soon the managment will get their pay cuts back. And to answer a question about how much money is 12%. A person making $50,000/year would lose $6,000. That is a lot of money for most people.
I read a poll (USA Today, maybe?) That listed the most respected jobs in the US. Firefighters were #1. Most public safety workers, meaning fire and police personnel literally put their lives at risk everyday. When you've "fallen and can't get up", who do you think responds? From medical aids to fighting fires these individuals are a necessity to the well being of every citizen. The same for the police, it's about more than just writing tickets.
I can foresee many of these men and women quitting and moving to areas where the cost of living is lower and they can be paid what they deserve for hazardous work. How will we replace those who leave? What will be the draw to come to Auburn? These are jobs that difficult to fill and cutting pay for those jobs will only make it more difficult. If we all have to live with decreased safety and protection in Auburn, I think worrisome times are ahead.
Auburn should show their respect by compromising. I agree that everyone should share the pain, but a 12% cut seems huge.
Dr. K, what kind of contract was negotiated last year? Did firefighters get raises last year, or the last few years? In order to form a more objective opinion more information is needed.
Here we go again!!! The city of Auburn is following suite with the county on making public safety take a back seat. WOW! the crooked politics here in Auburn really give D.C. a run for it's money! (pardon the pun!). Bottom line, upper management within the city/county are grossley overpaid. I say, "let 'em burn"
Dr Bill Kirby stated "doing what is right for the community and staying within our budget considering the state of the economy is more important than caving to a union that will not negotiate in good faith." WOW! Hey Doc, why don't you call all your doctor friends and get them to lower prices for health care? Didn't think so......they wouldn't be able to keep up their lawn mainteance, keep their wives in diamonds, etc...... yea, that $30.00 cut in the Council's salary really hurt you!
If the people dont like the pay, find another job, there are a lot of unemployed people out there that would like to be employed, including fire fighters,, better than that lay some off and keep the rest paid ....all this whining and posturing is juvenile behaviour...
stumpbranch:
You should be mad about this if the Council approves pay raises for management in a couple of months in this enviornment. We did not lie. There was no proposal presented to us since the last negotiation. We just received a letter saying they had a negotiator with no proposal. We made it clear we will negotiate as soon as we receive anything new. WE ARE NOT REFUSING TO NEGOTIATE!!!!
The total loss amounts to a 10% decrease over the term of the imposed contract ( the same as all other City employees) or 1 year. It is 12% if it just went through next July when the old contract would have been up. But the just imposed contract will last for 1 year from last night.
Placerwatchdog:
Crooked politics in Auburn? To what end or gain? To be falsely maligned? I am available to talk with anyone anytime. Have you checked the upper management salaries in the City? Also, I am one of the only Urologists in Northern California that will see a medi-cal or indigent patient. I also mow my own lawn. Most of my contracts are below medicare rates adn I am one of the few private practice physicians who is for a catastrophic government option so everyone has affordable care. I have no control over other physicians.
Salamander:
See my above comments. It amounts to 10% which everyone faced. I will have to look at the last contract which I believe was 2 years ago as I have only been on the council for 10 months. I will check on that and post it.
Dr Bill Kirby
Dr. Kirby (flyingsurgeon),
"we shared in the pay cut"? Really, you mean to tell me that you're willing to forfit 12% of your physician pay? Council is your side job, not your primary job. You took 12% from peoples PRIMARY INCOME! Please don't tell me that you can relate to the matter.
What does my physician pay have to do with City employees and the City budget?
I did not take the money away from anyone. Our tax revenues are significantly down, we are not the federal govt and cannot print money. Do you have real cost cutting measures you can suggest that we are not doing that will work?
Also, I worked my own way through every level of my eduction working in warehouses and digging ditches. I understand these cuts are not easy.
Again, as I said, I have always been available to meet and discuss any issue with anyone and will listen to suggestions.\
Dr Bill Kirby
It's never easy to face a pay cut but at least the city is willing to return them to full pay when the economy bounces back. The county REFUSED to agree to that term with the Deputy Sheriff's Association. I am glad to see that Bill Kirby is willing to discuss this openly...which to me makes him seem like he cares at least a little. Tom Miller used the board meeting with the DSA to take a nap. He actually closed his eyes for a short time. I appreciate Bill Kirby's approach to this rather then that of the counties overpaid CEO.
auburnite: It doesn't sound to me like these fire fighters are whining! When you become a fire fighter and are exposed to: H1N1, the flu, Hepatitis, AIDS, daily exposure to smoke and toxins, which by the way can give you cancer of many kinds, see death and ill babies, walk into a burning building, are nearly hit by a speeding car while responding to a car accident, OR become a police officer who is shot at by a criminal, then I think you might have a different opinion. Most people aren't exposed to sickness and disease to that extent. Yes, they took the job knowing all of this; that's not the issue. By the way...this fire dept has already restructured and is down to the bare bones. What more can they take away? If the 12% cut was coming to you and your family, I think you'd also think differently. I know in my family a 12% cut would be a huge amount of money all at one time. I'm not sure 12% is all that fair to take from anyone at once, bad economy or not. I've never heard of anyone earning a 12% increase or bonus at once in good times, how can the city expect to take that away all at once?? I'm sure the city manager's raise about 4 years ago isn't being affected. The employees always pay the biggest cost. There's got to be another area of the budget that can be pulled from. If they are taking that much from the fire dept, is public safety really that important to them?
Again it amounts to 10% over the life of the imposed contract which I agree is a lot but everyone including the City Manager and our contract employees had a 10% reduction. Should we make other employees take a bigger hit so firefighters take less of one?
Dr Bill KIrby
This doesn't make sense? You are willing to look at other offers if they were put on the table? Them why the 5-0 vote to cut their pay? Why aren't you at the table right now? I'll tell you why, it's because you want this whole mess behind you so we can get on with the pet projects. There have been salary surveys that show these firefighters are well below the 50th percentile in pay for this area and now they will be even lower. There may be more people out there willing to be firemen but I doubt they have the skills and training our fire department has right now. And I am sure they don't have the knowledge of the Auburn area like the firefighters we already have do.
I'm not focusing on just the fire dept, but the city council is. As I mentioned earlier in the multiple cost saving suggestions I provided, there has got to be other ways to cut down INSTEAD OF taking away from employee's paychecks. Is there only one objective on your agenda? It does not matter if the employee is from the fire dept, police dept, public works, or any other dept...if you're taking away a percentage, there's got to be a way to take a smaller percentage.
stumpbramch:
We will be at the table as soon as they bring us a proposal. Your comments are not accurate. I will adress the pay issue later.
But six of 10 fire fighters made over 6 figures when you add in State overtime adn the average total salary was $95,000 when you total City pay and State overtime that we allow them to receive.
Dr Bill Kirby
What do you mean Dr. Kirby "City pay and State overtime that we allow them to receive. " Allow?? State overtime??
I'm confused...doesn't the city get reinbursed by the state for that overtime or does the city pay for emergencies outside the city limits?
Thank you for allowing them to work overtime and be away from their family and loved ones you are so generous. You make it sound like they didn't earn that overtime by fighting wildfires all over the state. Wait a second that overtime was payed by tax payers from the state was it not? So thank you for allowing that overtime. Oh and the other overtime just might have been from lack of adequate staffing. last time I check emergencies don't happen from 9-5. the issue to me is you said that you are willing to negotiate but you have already implemented you LAST-BEST-and-FINAL. Sounds like you are saying one thing and doing the other. I guess that is just politics.
We allow our firefighters to leave the area to work for the state for which the state pays for their services and adds to their total compensation which results in the nubers I quoted above.
Dr Bill Kirby
The long term result of this pay cut (maybe it is only temporary) will be that the firefighters will use Auburn as a traning ground and move on to better jobs as soon as they achieve a certain level of training. The police department has gone through this same 'Training Ground' situation time and again through out the years.
stumpbranch:
THey want to leave and get the overtime. We do not have to agree to let them leave the area. But it is part of their total compensation.
And you comments are again wrong. We will negotiate when they present us with a proposal. The letter we received yesterday contained no proposal and was just a stalling manuver. We have been in negotiations since March.
The highest paid Captain received over $125,000.00 last year ($46,000.00 was overtime) almost as much as the police chief and city manager and more than the Fire Chief, Admin Scvs Director, Comm Dev Dir and Public Works director..
4 of 10 IAFF employees total compensation in 2008 was over 6 figures
in 2008, the average for IAFF employees was $95,000.
The last three year contract negotiated in and implemented in July 1,2006 provided for:
July 1, 2006 3.0%cola plus 7.0% equity = 10.0% Total\
July 1, 2007 3.0% cola plus 4.0% equity = 7.0% Total
July 1, 2008 3.0% cola plus 4.0% equity = 7.0% Total
Salamander asked me for this information
Dr Bill Kirby
Dr Bill Kirby
You still are not willing to negotiate.
How much of that was payed by the state? How much of that overtime was from lack of adequate staffing? How many firemen does the city employ? We have 13,000 citizens and 10 firemen? how much overtime was from firemen out on disabilities? Why do you assume overtime is a benefit? maybe if they were payed a comparable wage they would turn down that overtime. But wait they can't because they have a duty to the public they have swarn to serve.
I agree that everyone must help and take a hit in these hard economic times.I aplaud the board for doing what the unions couldnt,make a realistic offer.To set the record straight,our fire and police officials dont "put thier life on the line every day".There are times when they do,but not every day.It's a job,not art,they do it for the money.If anyone says different then they are a liar.The sacramento bee looked into what those prima-donas make in sac. town and found that every firefighter in the city was earning six figures!i would like the journal staff to report on what our local crews make.I am certian it would be an eye opener.Every time someone has some heartburn and thiks it's the 'big one"all the fire trucks show up and they get things under control for the emt's[who don't make jack in comarison].Then the boys in blue hang around to earn thier on call pay.I believe fire fighters should fight fires not answer every call for a stubbed toe or cat stuck in a tree.If my house caught fire I would like to think someone[who I pay] was on the ready,not comparing calendar shoots in someones front yard.These folks never have to worry about being dropped into a wildfire with only a shovel and a prayer.They are in a big state of the art truck with all thier buds.Good job council.
Bye the way in the interest of full disclosure:
In 2008 my total income on my tax return was $129,980
on line 22 form 1040
I will allow my tax return to be reviewed.
For 30 years, I have provided emergency Urology coverage to Sutter Auburn Faith 24 hours a day seven days a week when I am in town (over 95% of the time). I do not get paid extra for night or weekend call.
Dr Bill Kirby
Stumbranch:
Your quote "You still are not willing to negotiate" is absurd. When they present us with a proposal we will negotiate.
Dr Bill Kirby
i woder if when a fire person is in a fire or other mess will they only carry you out 12% less or only go in when the mess has burnt 12% less? liveing cost only went up 15% last year ? the cut may not be much but the bennys are what will hurt. get that money back from rocky .and use it to help with this cut .BUT THAT'S COUNTY MONEY .any body seen the check????. streetgoat did not need to be done now with money down .what was wrong with the street before.that money could have went to the firemen ? very good planing.who ever planded this should be in the cartoons not leters to the paper
-stumpbranch, Dr Kirby is making himself available and has even posted his phone number. He is only one out of all other Council members. He cannot negotiate with you, please understand that. If you are a member of the Union ask them if they have a new proposal to present to the Council.
You are saying the same thing over and over and over, knowing very well that Dr. Kirby alone can't do anything, not any more than you can.
People have to realize that the price of housing has dropped, in the private sector millions of jobs have been lost and people are learning to live with a heck of a lot less money. We are headed straight into a lower standard of living and everyone must realize that. Even the UAW has renegotiated contracts and their employees have seen a drop in salaries and benefits, look at what has happened to State workers, no one is immune, we don't have to like it but at this time there is not much anyone of us can do about it, flinging insults and innuendos certainly doesn't help one bit.
Call the Dr. and talk to him if you can do it in a civil manner, if you're just going to yell and rant, save yourself and Dr. Kirby the time.
Fedallah, please explain how your wonderful Democrats would have handled the situation. Would they have given the firefighters a raise? At the expense of what other department. Please don't just rant, explain in a civil well informed manner how the situation would have been different if all the members were Democrats
Please don't equate any governing body in Placer County to the County's management team headed by Tom Miller, they broke the mold when they made him and Colwell, the BOS are just puppets of them. Even the lone Democrat, Ms Montgomery has failed to live up to Fedallah's expectations and has joined the other Republican boys in rubber stamping decisions.
dr bill kirby no body is talking about you and your income this a city matter with the firefighter's .when the firefighter's leave it is there job. and told to not for overtime .overtime is mot mandtory .it is your call if you want to or no more more or less. i can see this is going to be a long one
Loomis resident. show me where i have flung insults and innuendos.
They only side that is stalling is the city. "Richard A. Reed said Monday night that he has sent two letters to the city requesting further conference." You are right this is not the proper way to negotiate unfortunately the ball is in their (the Cities) court and they do not want to negotiate. Doc did you not read the letter Mr. Reed sent? Is this the councils way of negotiating, by forcing pay cuts? What has the city offered the firemen in good faith bargaining that comes close to a 12% pay cut? The city has to contact the union negotiator. The union negotiator has sent several letters with no response. Who's stalling now?
I cant believe i agree with the city about the 12% paycut. I am so tired of public servants holding the taxpayer hostage if thay cant get what they want. For those of you who say firefighters and law enforcement dont do it for the money......thats bs. Hell, i wish i had a job right now. My previous bosses have always said "If you dont like it, go find another job."
P.s.=Gatemom ,i could'nt agree with you more
Of course I read Mr Reed's letter delivered yesterday and it had no new proposal in it. It just said he wanted to meet. When we get a proposal we will negotiate as the Mayor said last night. We have negotiated this since March. Again, the streetscape money by law is not available for general fund items.
Dr Bill Kirby
Wow, auburnnative and Gatemon, you are apparently two peas in a pod. Your ignorant comments about the fire service give you zero credibility here. And auburnnative...your previous bosses comment to you, "If you dont like it, go find another job" probably explains why you do not have a job right now. I don't know your story, but I can only guess by your comments. I originally thought you were just jaded, but now I think you just have a poor attitude. I've kept my comments fair, intelligent, and productive, but yours take the cake.
On a more focused note, Dr. Kirby, please do not try to insinuate fire fighters have it so good by listing salaries in the 6 figures and that fire fighters go for the overtime, THAT is absurd. I'm sorry, but when was the last emergency from 8-5? You can't just stop putting out a fire because it's quittn' time. There is no such thing, as you well know with your on-call work as a doctor. When Auburn Fire is out assisting other cities (EARNING that overtime, because it is exactly that-overtime WORK), those same cities do the same to assist us, God forbid we have a disaster. It's part of the job! I would encourage you to do a ride along with your fire dept for a day to see exactly what they do. You don't know until you experience it for yourself.
Back to the point of negotiations - be fair and go by the books and please don't ignore a letter from union representation.
We are going by the book and will negotiate when they send us a proposal. I did not insinuate anything. I only listed their salaries. And they do want the overtime and it is part of their compensation.
Dr Bill Kirby
Dr. K, I post this with the utmost respect, because I feel as though you are taking the heat for the entire council. I also understand that you worked hard to get through med school. What with loans and the ever changing medical environment, it must be difficult.
But I get the vague feeling that you don't agree with the above mentioned Captain's compensation. Almost as if he didn't deserve such a large amount. Firefighting is a science, and he is well trained and educated in this field. When you drew the parallel between the Captain's pay and the pay of some local administrators, it seemed you thought his compensation too high. I would like to point out that he didn't earn this money doing nothing (as some administrators have been known to do). He and the others who volunteered for mutual aid were doing dangerous, back breaking work. They work in active fire areas, in heavy firefighting gear, in hot, blistering weather and God forbid the wind should shift.
When the firefighters went down south to aid, their compensation for that should not even be a consideration in this equation. It's sort of like having a second job, a different employer per se. The time spent out of district is paid for by the district they are working for, not the city of Auburn. We need to hear the base pay for a firefighter in Auburn. Not a captain, not with overtime. Just a little ol' firefighter.
No, I only listed the numbers because you asked me to. I make no judgement as to the numbers just reported them and comparative items.
The City manager, Police Chief, Public Works director, Admin Services Director all make about the same amount as the highest paid captain and do not get overtime pay for the amount of time they work over and above 40 hours a week.
I also listed the fact that in the last contract the firefighters received a 10% raise in 2006 and 7% raises in 2007 and 2008. I will get the base pay numbers you asked for but the average overtime is 26% with an average salary of $95,000.00 so without overtime the number would be about $72,000. That is my approximation and I will get you the base numbers tomorrow as I got the last numbers you asked for.
Dr Bill Kirby
The City manager, Police Chief, Public Works director, Admin Services Director all make about the same (as the highest payed fire captain) without the hours of overtime. How many years of experience and training does that Captain have with the city and other departments? The city is paying for a level of service and experience. They do the same for police Captains and department directors. I still don't understand why the city hasn't called the union negotiator.
Stumbranch:
It is the unions job to present us with a proposal. Then we will negotiate. It is not a game. We put forward our last best and final offer and they never countered it. We are ready and willing to negotiate when they present us something to negotiate with. The ball is in their court not ours.
We cannot negotiate without a proposal. What about that do you not understand?
Dr Bill Kirby
But the letter said that they want to meet. How are they sapposed to meet when the city doesn't call them to meet? I don't understand, are they sapposed to just mail it to your house.
Why is it that the services and the workers that we really need, ie.. Firefighters, police, Teachers always get pay cuts, while the politicians constantly give themselves raise after raise...
Stumpbranch:
This is circular. We will meet with them when they give us a proposal to discuss. The union and their representatives understand this. We gave them an offer and they did not counter. When they do we will discuss it. That is how it is done and they know it. If they deliver a proposal to City Hall then game on and we meet.
Kellilove
There have been no raises for the 'politicians' in Auburn. Actually I hate the word and consider myself a public servant which is why I expose myself this way.
Dr Bill Kirby
Dr. Kirby,
It is pretty obvious that the council is either not trying to come to an agreement with the firefighters on their contract, or you have been misled as to the events that transpired before reaching your approval of the “offer” last night.
You say that all city employees have taken a 10% pay cut. It was quite magnanimous for the city managers and department heads to take a pay cut in March 2009 to show they were doing their part. Too bad the public isn’t necessarily aware of the fact that they had just given themselves a raise 6 mos. before in Sept. 2008.
The Police Department lost two employees only to find grant money and re-hire them in a short amount of time. Therefore, they have seen no actual pay cuts or reduction of staff.
The fire department offered to and eliminated two management positions. That alone had to reduce their budget by approximately $170,000. Not only have they kept this amount in the budget, they have reduced overtime considerably since that time. Why can’t that suffice as to their contribution to assist the city at this time of need?
You keep saying that you are waiting for them to send a new proposal, however, when Richard Reed asked to meet and confer, he was told “no”. Why did the city council deny all requests to meet and confer in good faith? I believe the labor law states that a proposal cannot be made via phone or mail. How can you say you are willing to work on this when you …
. How can you say you are willing to work on this when you refuse to meet at the table?
I see from their contracts that the city manager and department heads each have pay-for-performance bonus clauses in their contracts. Is that legal? Can a city gift public funds?
When you ran for office, you said your plan for the fire department was to “see more boots on the ground”. Since you’ve been in office, two positions have been lost. Can you be a man of your word and make it right? Be a hero; call Mr. Reed and bring negotiations back.
Auburnite's an idiot. Privatize fire and police? That's what you want. Fire and police out dor a profit while cuttingg corners to make money. Maybe a bonus for volume of arrests? Can you see the obvious inherent risk of that? Or do you need me to explain it to you auburnite. Maybe he fire guys would use a bit less gauze or decide your headwound isn't severe enough to transport you. Maybe that's what happened to you already to have thought such an ignorant idea was even feasible.
forester:
When Mr Reed sends us a proposal we (meaning city negotiators) will meet. I cannot call Mr Reed. It is not allowed. But I will meet with any citizen or city employee to discuss any issue.
As to staffing, we are following the recommendations of the Chief. We did not tell him what to say. Again, there are no bonuses being given this year. It is common for at will employees have pay for performance bonuses in their contract. If you, or anyone else, wants to talk with me just let me know when and where and I will try to be there. I work for the employees and the citizens and try to be available to them.
Dr Bill Kirby
8852124
Forester- you wrote" The fire department offered to and eliminated two management positions." Knowing Placer County politics, i'm sure the two employee's were hidden into another area of the force. So, the city didnt save any money there.
Sooo. U.S. Mail or UPS. What is the best way to get a counter proposal. I thought it was called meet and confer not propose and mail. No wonder why unions higher representation. How long has this been going on?
harleyrider,
You are just another socialist. I don't want to pay for your fire protection.
I just want to take a minute to thank you Dr. Kirby. Even if we don't like what you are telling us, it's nice for someone to have the "man parts" to present it to us.
Joszef, let me spell it out for you. Privatization of public safety is fraught with problems. Private firms are in existence because they seek a profit. That would mean hiring cheap labor. Do you want the cheapest cops/firefighters? You get what you pay for. Incentives would be offered and there would be no oversight. So if these cheap unqualified applicants get bonuses for more arrests, cost cutting on first aid, how will that work for you? Do you want these 'privatized' cops planting evidence to obtain bonuses? Basically you will have a security guard with lots of motivation to arrest you. I welcome your argument now, if you can think of one.
harley, JosefPelokan was just being facetious, he agrees with what you said.You need to understand his dry sense of humor.
Thank you Salamander:
I will try to get and post the base pay numbers today.
Dr Bill Kirby
Many of the folks commenting on this letter have never held an elected office or owned a business. When revenues drop cuts have to be made. Payroll is usually the biggest expense for government agencies or a business. Saving paper clips will not work. One has to cut the biggest expenses.
Vallejo went bankrupt because of the union controlled city council that paid their union employees too much. In Valleo's case it wasn't just the pay, it was the unsustainable benefits package.
Bankrupt cities mean pensions are terminated for their retired employees. Do you want a Placer County city to go bankrupt?
Private ambulance companies and the EMT's did a find job for many years before the fire department took over...harleyriders ignorance never fails to amaze me...
Okay Dr. Kirby,
Let’s clear the air on a couple of issues:
1.“six of 10 fire fighters made over 6 figures when you add in State overtime…”
You are using this against them? First of all, you only have 10 firefighters to provide 24/7, 365 days a year coverage to the town? Of course some people are going to be sick, injured, take vacation. There’s always going to be overtime… and with only 10, a lot of it. When you figure that they have to work a 24 hour shift on top of their already 48 hours (or so) a week, yeah… it’s going to cost some money. The only way to avoid this is to hire more firefighters and have a larger pool of personnel to pull from.
State overtime: You’re using natural disasters against them for receiving overtime while on state fires. Really? You can’t count this money as “monies lost” by the city. The city is paid back from the state at a higher rate than it cost. Bottom line on this statement: the city MAKES MONEY sending firefighters and equipment to state fires. Maybe not a lot, but nothing is lost. By the way, while those firefighters are off fighting fires, someone’s back at the station making overtime to cover their absence. $$$. What did it cost the city? Nothing.
2.“In 2008 my total income on my tax return was $129,980”
So if you lost 12%, that would equate to over $15K of your income.
“What does my physician pay have to do with City employees and the City budget?”
I use this as a reference. If a firefighter is making over 100K and your making over 100K, how would you feel about taking that cut? Don’t you deserve that money? Education, experience, responsibility of a patient’s life in your hands. Not that much different from that of a fire captain, huh? You’re responsible to your patient’s, firefighters are responsible to a whole city.
It’s hard, but you can’t say that all departments in the city are equal. That’s the bottom line. Is it more important to have nice streets or have low crime? The balance will always have to lean more on public safety. The fire department is an anomaly. They don’t bring in revenue to the city and sometimes it feels more like a insurance policy, and they are. But with all insurance policies, you get what you paid for. So, that being said, sometimes you have to say “hey, there’s nothing more to cut” and accept that this is the price to have experienced firefighters in my city.
Ways to save money: Start charging or raise the fee for fire service. Business ABC’s fire alarm goes off once a week and the fire department has to respond… charge them. Vehicle accidents? Charge the cost to the insurance companies.
Have all other options been exhausted or considered before drastic decisions are made?
Dr. Kirby,
You still didn't answer my question. Why isn't cutting two positions and saving $170 in outlay enough for one department's share of the contribution in hard times? No other department has gone without that much?
I do appreciate your willingness to reply. Where are the other council members? Don't they have an opinion?
You also never answered if the council was aware that when trying to get together, the city manager told them "no".
Thanks,
I just found the Auburn Firefighter's Association web page online. They have contact information if anyone would like to talk to them about these issues. www.auburncityfire.com
I believe that some facts need to be brought out. I am the representative for the firefighters. I have recently been retained to represent them in the negotiations and sent a letter to the city manager to advise him of this fact. I also advised him in my letter dated October 19th, 2009 that the firefighters had additional movement and requested to meet and confer prior to the city taking any type of action. I recieved a letter from the city manager on Friday October 23rd questioning my role and asking confirmation. I informed him in my original letterthat the Union has still has room to negotiate. He also requested a proposal in writting from me as "the city has no reason to believe that the Association has changed its position" he also requested a proposal from the Union so the city can consider. NOW for the benefit of the City and Council, under the California Government Code Section 3505 it states that "meet and confer means that a public agency, or such representatives as it may designate, and representatives of recognized employee organizations, shall have the mutual obligation personally to meet and confer promptly upon request by either party" IT DOES NOT SAY MAIL PROPOSAL AND WE WILL CONSIDER. This fact was brought to the City's attention in a letter that I sent and was hand delivered on Monday morning October 26th, before the council meeting. The Union is still prepared to meet and confer in good faith to continue for the benefit of the citizens as always.
Mr. Kirby,
It seems pretty obvious that Mr. Reed is waiting for you to call and let him know when you'll be available to meet. Why can't you just pick up the phone?
Again they are unwilling to negotiate. It is ovious from mr. Kirbys earlier comments that he is against unions.
"Again they are unwilling to negotiate. It is ovious from mr. Kirbys earlier comments that he is against unions."
I am also...the additional cost us taxpayers bear as a result higher costs do doing nothing but line the pockets of the unions,, and their attorneys....parity in the workeforce should be the norm.
Apparently, this letter from the union rep was addressed to Mr. Richardson, City Manager. I'm calling him out on this and asking him to address this now. Did Mr. Richardson fail to inform the City Council about this letter prior to the council meeting on Monday, October 26?? If a city council is still open to negotiations in good faith, as the fire fighters are, why was the action at the council meeting to vote for the paycut?
Auburnite....your comments are very confusing to read. If you are speaking of "equality" in the workforce, please explain who you are referring to. If you are saying that a fire fighter is equal to a city manager, or the like, you are completely off base. They are two completely different jobs. I'd love to hear your explanation if I'm incorrect. Also, I'm still not sure what this has to do with negotiations.
We'd like to hear what you have to say Mr. Richardson? Where are you?
Why did the council approve the offer, if they are still willing to confer at the table? It sure looked like their minds were already made up. The public input was tolerated, not appreciated. If that is the way it was, you didn't need to be so obvious as to treat the firefighters with absolutely no respect.
Maybe if less was spend on special "studies" there would be enough money to pay reasonable wages. I still want someone to tell me why that $170K isn't enough? No other dept. has given that much for the cause. It was even given before you started asking for the paycut. How much more agreeable do you expect the firefighters to be?
I'll be waiting to hear from you Mr. Richardson!!!!!!
First of all, I posted the salary numbers because they are public information and Salamander asked me to. Yes a 10% reduction over the life of the contract is a big hit. I posted other salaries for perspective. I am not anti union. I am not using anything against anyone least off all natural disasters. The numbers are just the numbers. I did not count it as money lost to the City. We have discussed charging insurance companies for non resident accidents and it is in the discussion phase. It would not generate a lot of money.
Forester: I do not understand you comment about saving $170,000 in outlay enough of a contribution. I will respond if I understand it more.
The council received the letter from Mr Reed that was delivered Monday the day of the meeting with no new proposal. On the advice of the City attorney at this point it was felt that we would start a negotiation when we received a proposal to our "Last Best and Final Offer". We are not labor lawyers and followed their advice.
Obviously, I as one council member cannot call any union representative. When we get a proposal we have directed our negotiators to meet.
I can and will meet with any citizen or employee (firefighter) to listen to their concerns and rspond as best I can.
Look everyone, I am trying to do the best I can here and I do not pretend to be perfect. I try to answer all the questions as best I can and explain what is going on from my perspective. We also again are not lawyers.
Dr Bill Kirby
They all get a base salary + a 2.50% FLSA addition. I’ll show that as base salary.
Then the base salary can be elevated by the Step they are on (A thru E) + Longevity Steps of 5% each and occur at years 7, 11 and 20.
Plus there are incentive pays, of which most hold all, (but can not exceed 6%) these are:
3% with 4 years Auburn Fire experience and an AA in a related field.
3% with 2 years Auburn Fire experience and certified as Driver Operator 1.
3% with 4 years Auburn Fire experience and certified as Company Officer.
Fire Captains get an additional 5% for the addition Batt Chief duties.
This combination of factors go into what you pay your fighters and Captains on a monthly basis. City overtime and State overtime is then added to that.
Fire Captain
Step Base Sal wt 6% of incentives but no longevity steps of 5% each
A 4655 4927
B 4769 5174
C 5006 5431
D 4912 5702
E 5160 5825
Firefighter
Step Base Sal wt 6% of incentives but no longevity steps of 5% each
A 3914 4144
B 4010 4350
C 4315 4567
D 4532 4798
E
I posted the base salaries as requested for our firefighters. Again this is public information.
E did not print because of the limitation of 1500 characters but was
Firefighter
Step Base wt 6% of incentives but no longevity steps of 5% each
E 4760 5038
I hope this helps those who asked for it.
Dr Bill Kirby
Doc,
The $170K is what the fire dept. saved by voluntarily eliminating the two Battalion Chief's positions. That amount has to be more than any other department has been asked to give up. So why are you wanting the 10% cut in addition to that?
Hope that is clear enough.
Forester:
Thank you. I will make an inquiry as to this and the total budget and try to put it in perspective so I can understand it better.
Bill Kirby
Yesterday you were willing to meet with anyone. Today you say you will send your negotiators to the table. Are they really necessary? If you say you are willing to get together and the FF say they have been trying to meet with you, why is the city wasting our tax dollars on a negotiator? Seems like you don't want to meet face to face.?????????? It sounds like the FF only got a negotiator because every time they tried to meet with you, they were told no by the city mgr.
Forester:
I will meet with anyone but as the union knows I cannot negotiate. The labor rules are very specific. It is very frustrating for me that we are not allowed to sit in a room with all of the firefighters, their represenative and our financial director and City manager and just talk.
The firefighters have always had a union negotiator.
Dr Bill Kirby
Thank you forester and Dr. Kirby - this is productive!
Also, yes, with respect Dr. Kirby, you and all city council members are clearly not labor lawyers, that would not be your job. It is recognized that you, and only you, have taken on the task of publicly responding on behalf of the entire council. Who is the city's rep in these negotiations? Is it city attorney, Mr. Colantuono? I'm sure the rep is paid well to know the law. Why does the city's rep, not know/recognize the gov code stated in Mr. Reed's letter, "California Government Code Section 3505... "meet and confer means that a public agency, or such representatives as it may designate, and representatives of recognized employee organizations, shall have the mutual obligation personally to meet and confer promptly upon request by either party." An answer to why the city isn't acknowledging this code would be helpful.
We were told meet and confer was used before a final contract was done and during negotiotions. As we had declared an impasse, only a response to our 'last and final offer' was cause to stop the process. We had been at this since March.
This is my understanding and the best explanation I can give at this point.
I am not saying everything is right or wrong but trying to explain as best I can the process that was undertaken and it was based on the legal advice we were given and the proces as I understand it to move forward
Bill Kirby
The firefighters have not always had a union negotiator. you are wrong. They have tried to sit down without the cities negotiator but the city has refused to do so. You are either mis informed or not telling the truth. the city, on the other hand, has always had a negotiator. how much tax dollars have been spent in retaining the city negotiator? that is tax dollars being spent and should be a matter of public record as well.
I have been told that the firefighters had a union negotiator. I do not lie. I may be mis-taken or have wrong information but do not lie.
I will check on that again. I am sure the negotiator's pay is a matter of record and will try to find that out.
Bill Kirby
Dr. Kirby, I am concerned that the City Manager has not relayed all the information that has occurred during the negotiations that have been ongoing since March 2009 to you and the Council members. Are you aware that the firefighters accepted the city's offer back in March with the stipulation that along with their pay cut the City managers would not be given bonuses. The City Manager/negotiator rejected this offer. The fact that City Clerk Joseph Labrie asked this question at the City Council meeting held Oct. 26 and was told my Mayor Holmes that this was not true has me concerned that all of the information is not being passed along.
nickle1963:
The Council directed our negotiators (on the advice of our attorney) to state that we could not put terms binding other city employees in another union's contract but that we would guarantee that there would be no bonuses during the terms of the contact which is what we were told was asked for.
Dr Bill Kirby
Auburnite. There's a reason you are unemployed. You're an idiot. AMR shoe up and patch you up, then give you a ride to the hospital. Cops and firefighters don't do that. They will run into burning buildings, handle standoffs, etc. You are comparing apples to oranges. But then again I'm not surprised. It's obvious you are a hater. I notice you don't comment on the other stories about detectives cracking theft rings, the wonderful job firefighters did at the 49er fire, etc. PS, mcdonald is hiring. Quit collecting the government check that I pay with on my tax dollars and get a job. Stop being a leech. I'm tired o working so you can stay home and play X-box.
If you say you are not bending the truth them I will try to believe you. But if that is the case the council is obviously not getting the whole story from the City Manager and the city negotiator. That is the problem when there is no council members in negotiations to verify what is being said. The city is trusting in a negotiator that may not have the best interest of all parties in mind.
stumpbranch:
I have said that them most frustrating thing for me is that we cannot sit in a room with the firefighters, our chief financial officer, the City Manager, Fire Chief and both sets of negotiators and talk openly. When people bring concerns to me about any process, I attempt to find the answer and then openly state it to the best of my ability. I do believe in complete transparency. I try to answer questions to the best of my understanding. I also wish I was not the only one responding but often get slammed when I try to be open so sort of understand it.
Bill Kirby
Doc,
Can you tell Mr. Richardson we are awaiting his answers to our questions . We would really like to hear his side of the story.
Thanks,
Forester:
I have asked about your question about the $170 saved with the Batt chief situation and am awaiting an answer.
I have read back through most of the blogs and believe I have tried to answer the rest of the question. If you have another question, let me know and I will try to get the answer to that.
Bill Kirby
Don't forget about my question. How much is the city negotiator getting payed?
Did you tell Mr. Richardson we'd like some answers from him?
I have asked both of these questions and am waiting fro the answers.
Dr Bill Kirby