Picture man as endangered
Reader Input
If catastrophic climate change is for real and is as devastating as most of the world’s scientists say it could be, most of us would be killed prematurely by its effects. The naysayers tell us it’s a big hoax. It’s just big corporations finding a new way to make money, and more government taking over our lives. And, anyway, for us to build an entirely new alternative energy system would create more enormous debt that our children and grandchildren would have to pay back. With our present economy the last thing we need is more debt! But let’s stop and think. What if it is a real and present danger? Can we afford to do nothing or very little? Is our national debt a bigger threat than the possible extinction of most life on earth? These are really tough questions and nobody has complete and perfect answers. And by the way, the gathering body of evidence from the applicable scientists, is that the really bad part is coming a lot sooner than originally thought. This means that most of humanity will be extinct within 40 to 50 years. It’s sort of like this is one big scientific experiment. Let’s see how much carbon dioxide we can pump into the air before the climate is radically changed and the kind of life that is now on earth will no longer be able to survive. This is basically like we’re living in a test tube, and nobody really knows how the experiment is going to work out. Neil Davis, Rocklin
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Neil, please don't worry, the world, by all accounts, will end on December 21, 2012. So go ahead and do anything and everything you've always wanted to do. We are all going to die.
Geologists believe that in 15,000 years there will be 200 feet of ice covering New York city. How can we extend global warming for 15,000 years to save New York City? All of man's and woman's great achievements have come during periods of global warming.
Loomis..... I use to think about that date tooooooo... But now I want to live a bit longer so I support ... Isaac Newton, the Apocalypse and 2060 A.D theory... whew!
Neil, if it makes you feel better, I believe in global warming.
There is overwhelming evidence that our globe warms by 10-12c every 120,000 years. We are at the peak right now. It was this warm 120,000 years ago before the SUV was invented.
Man crossed the Bering Straits on a sheet of solid ice about 10,000 years ago when we were in the end of an ice age. It was the beginning of yet another cycle of global warming.
If man survived the ice age, we should do just fine surviving the next one.
As Jon says, its going to be a different world though when all of Canada, most of Russia, and even as far South as New York City is covered with 200 feet of ice.
The big threat to humanity is not the natural cycling of our global temperatures though, its going to be a virus. It won't kill us off though, it will just lower our population to the point that only those who know how to build a bow and arrow, live in a tent, and throw a spear will survive. Get ready for it.
General Sam also believes it's OK to continue to pollute the world ( Republican agenda and Republican big business.)
I truly understand the concerns over global warming and yes I have researched it extensively many many years ago and yes we have a problem reaching a high degree and level of concern...we have all participated in and polluted this planet very quickly. We all chose to allow those who would profit and make money from oil.... to supply us all the current lifestyles and pleasures we now enjoy. Petroleum products are responsible for the greatest advances this world has ever seen......and yes we all have paid a very high price for the pollution we all jointly created ...from our desire and wanting of the comfort and pleasures that the use of these oil and fossil fuels has supplied and provided to us all.
Let us take our time and not make another misguided mistake in the future.......
If we are responsible for global warming we are really in trouble, as any attempt to reverse the trend is as poisonous a pill as the condition
we find ourselves in. Maybe we should look at "evolving" along with the change. I still believe that this is more of a natural phenomena then we are being lead to believe. There is money to be made in "green" technology and so far it has been exploited. I have tried to purchase solar active electrical replacement, but the cost is inflated to a point that it is not cost effective, therefore unaffordable for me.
Fourgen, Maybe you could try a wind turbine, theirs plenty of hot air around here to make it spin.
Fourgen...me too...its really an expensive conversion and really just an upfront prepaid purchase of future electricity use...
Glenn wears so many tin foil hats from the left side of his brain...he has no clue what is real or not real...a true left brain x fantasy land... as he lives in a home that would not exist.. if it were not for fossil fuels.....
fourgen,
Unless you live in a really shady area it's hard to imagine that a solar installation would not save you money.
I installed a 7.6 KW system earlier this year and have had positive cash flow from the start. The system will pay for itself in eight years.
Your PG&E rebate and federal tax credit will cover 35 to 40% of the cost. The federal tax credit alone covers a full 30% with no top end. You can install a large or small system...there's no minimum size.
According to this week's Time Magazine, 40% of the solar electric installations in the United States are located in the PG&E service area.
Before anyone dismisses solar I recommend you do some research. There are solar calculators available online. PG&E will loan you a tool to measure your solar energy potential. You enter your latitude and longitude (available through Google Maps). You go to several locations in the area where you think you will locate the panels and orient the device to magnetic south with the compass. There's a bubble to keep it level. Then you take a picture through a bird's eye lens. The onboard computer will recognize the shaded areas from the picture and block them out. You download the data to your PC and it calculates the solar energy for every month of the year. You enter that into a program that includes inputs for the solar system you are considering and your energy costs and you get detailed financial results. Try it!
I'll add that a quality solar electric system will add to the value of your home dollar for dollar. So even if you are thinking of moving before the system is paid off it's still a good deal.
Miutwant...if you could... maybe you could post the actual reall numbers and please be specific to your actual installation. If the solar system has a 25+ year life span...what would one do if the roof needed to be replaced before the solar panel life span is up? I have about 8 years left on my roof life....
Obewan,
You would replace your roof before you put in the solar system. That doesn't necessarily mean you'd need to replace the entire roof at one time, and if you're going with the same material and similar color you could replace only the area where your new solar collectors would sit.
Miuwtant,
Great to see you here today. Thanks for the info. ;-)
gmv, you really are slamming it out there today. Go take a walk, its a perfect fall afternoon.
Miuwtant, thanks for the info. I wasn't surprised to find out 40% of the solar installations are in the PG&E area.
Greg...I can understand the problem. I currently have a comp roof and would like to change over to steel one in the future..I really would like to have a roof that never ever needs to be replaced....or has the longest possible life span. I realize many people have what some would term temporary housing that shifts with moves in jobs etc.. I would like to pay mine off and stay and die in mine and then pass it on to my children some day. Yes I could change out the roof early and use a line etc. creating more debt for me in the roof change out and then additional debt to install for the solar panels etc. I guess if I made enough profit on the solar...it might offset the overall roof cost and that would be nice and why Miuwtant's actual posted figures would be helpful in my decision process.
Obewan,
Heat and ultraviolet light are what break down roofing materials. The roof beneath solar panels will get less ultraviolet light, but the heat will still be there. A standing-seam metal roof might be worth looking into.
That's right, Greg. We were lucky in that we replaced our roof in 2002 with 40-year comp so putting the panels on now was easy. The roof under the panels will last pretty much forever as long as we keep it clean because the rain and sun never hit it directly.
There are lots of considerations and it's definitely not a slam dunk for everyone. We had lots of room left on our HELOC so the financing was a matter of writing a check. The interest on the HELOC is tax deductible but so would the interest on any loan you use. If you don't have a good southern exposure that's a problem. We had our main gable facing south but there are some big pine trees that throw shade on part of the panels for a couple of hours a day. Even with that since we installed in March we have paid almost nothing except the monthly base fee (about $16.00) to PG&E. You sell back power when you are producing more than you use.
Some people have CC&R problems or just don't like the appearance. No one can even see our panels so that was not an issue at all.
Obe, every installation is unique. My figures won't tell you much. I recommend borrowing the tool from PG&E and doing some calculations if you are interested. That costs you nothing and you can do it yourself without getting all tied up with a salesperson if you're just a little bit handy.
A side benefit: The sun doesn't hit your roof at all where you have panels installed; they are mounted 4" above the roof . Cooler house!
BTW, I will not post or comment on politics / religion / news. Just safe and sane stuff like this!
Miuwtant...thanks for the info and yes there are a great deal of benefits to going solar and a cooler house is the ticket any way you go. I had a thought last year when I saw ivy growing up the side of my house...I pondered if I could just let the ivy envelope the entire house.. roof and all....but the little plant probably would eat my wood siding paint and comp roof after a couple of years. The concept of allowing the plant to consume the sun's energy and cool the entire house is certainly feasible.. now if I could tap the plants energy...that would be truly what people would call a "Green House".
Two words:
NUCLEAR ENERGY
One more word:
NOW
Obe,
Your idea - extended quite a bit - is the concept of "green roofs" where the entire roof is a garden or whatever.
FoMoCo has a huge factory with maybe five acres of roofs - all planted. China is building an entire city using this concept.
Ecological Chicken Little's have been screaming "the sky is falling" forever. In the late 60's and early 70's scientists were making noises about "global cooling." They decided that theory was wrong. (Or they couldn't figure out a way to make money out of it...I don't know which.) Then it was "the ozone hole." They couldn't prove that wasn't a natural cyclical phenomenon. Now it's global warming.
Congress is trying to pass "cap and trade," also known as the biggest unilateral tax hike in history. (No other nation's going to pay it too!) All to "protect" us! (Who protects us from Congress?!)
Neil. In your view, does man have a place in the ecological chain? Do you live in a house, eat produce or food brought by evil diesel truck engines? Drive a car? Tsk...tsk Neil.
"Solar rebates" are tax payer money being given away...again. The last information I had was photo-voltaic arrays are relaced in 10 years or so. Not 25. Do you have a regulator to make sure taxpayer-subsidized power you sell back is "clean," without surges or low-voltage? There's a computer set-up so the power's monitored and shuts off automatically when the grid does? (So you don't electrocute those working on a downed line.) Are there batteries and switching regulators in the set-up as storage or back-up? Costs and replacement schedules?
It's obvious solar still has a way to go for economy. That's why neither solar nor turbines stepped in during the power shortage some years ago.
Yes? No?
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=2332
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
There actually was no power shortage several years ago....it was a complete scam brought on by Enron and collaborators in creating scarcity of energy to California....it all went away quietly as billions were stolen and the last bit of evidence regarding this energy scam... disappeared when World Trade Center Building 7 miraculously collapsed during 9-11...nice and neat end to any investigation in progress. First time in the history of construction that a steel framed building ever collapsed from a fire...hmm. Another scam perpetrated on a distracted public for the making of money...They do say solar panels last 25+ years but the generation capacity lessens over time down to 80% or less. Have no clue on maintenance costs. If PG&E can convince enough people to come on board with purchased solar panels then they do not need to invest in building any power plants at their expense and thus more profit for their stock holders. Clearly the solar panel dollar costs are being front loaded and paid by the consumers HELOC's and yes the rebates are nice and a way to help curb...global warming scenarios creating less demand for fossil fuels...while once again promoting scarcity of electricity in the California market place and thus driving up the costs of this commodity to consumers on purpose...which in turn drives business away to other states. The reason the solar is going gangbusters in the PG&E market area is because the customers have been repeatedly over charged for years now.
Bring back steam engines.
rwarren,
Yes, my system includes safety features (except storage which is typically only used in 100% off-grid installations because of cost). Both the County and PG&E inspected the installation to ensure it complies with safety and performance requirements. If you have questions about their inspection and safety processes I would recommend contacting them. By the way, many homes in the foothills have portable generators which can dangerously feed back into the utility system if not correctly wired or operated.
The expected life of the panels is about twenty to twenty-five years. You lose about .5% of efficiency per year on average, so even after twenty-five years the system should still be over 80% functional. You may be thinking of earlier generations of the technology which had much shorter life spans. I think you'll agree that ALL electric power generating equipment has a life span - nothing is forever. And panels can be replaced on existing mounts and without necessarily replacing the inverters and other system components if they remain functional so the "refresh" cost could be much lower than the initial cost.
There are new thin-film solar technologies coming which should reduce costs considerably.
I understand your point about the subsidies and won't debate that one way or the other. But they currently exist and you can take advantage of them if you would like. If you do the system is very cost effective for the owner which is all I am saying here.
YS..nice links..I wonder why they have not been headline news here in America..this could not be another scam ?