Jeff Scott doesn't need to "grovel to the state for permissions to work." All he had to do was pass a fairly easy written test, demonstrate several years' experience in the landscaping or construction trades, and post a $15,000 bond. Thousands of other landscaping contractors comply with the law, but Jeff Scott, for reasons that remain a mystery, has not. Mr. Scott is not gong to prison for 3 months, although this is not his first offense and his violation of the law appears quite deliberate. He may get 30 days in the County jail and a fine.

But in any case, Mr. Seth King, spare us your righteous indignation. If you don't like the law, call Ted Gaines, your state Assemblyman, and ask him to change the law. But your talk of "civil disobedience" just makes you sound like a crybaby.

I don't know about this person's past offences but I do agree with Gulliver.

"I don’t have much hope for dismantling our state apparatus at the ballot box. It’s most likely going to have to come from civil disobedience."

You're probably right, Seth. Sadly, them system itself dictates who, what, when, why, and how we vote... it'll be hard to change a system that the system itself has in place.

"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may."

- Mark Twain

The law is to help protect the consumer from bad work and contractors! Its the 1 hammer before going to court. If a contractor is above board and there is a dispute.... the homeowner has a way to resolve the issue... if it is an unlicensed individual... to often they slip away. So seth... what handyman work do you do?

Oops... wrong quote. Here:

"Every actual state is corrupt. Good men must not obey laws too well."

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

(There, that's better)

I should clarify... my quotes are in direct correlation to the quote I used from Seth and do not reflect whether or not I feel that the landscaper was qualified or not. That's a different matter altogether.

If he were an illegal alien, he wouldn't have a problem.....

I disagree with the "victimless crime" argument. Its like a drunk driver who does not get in an accident.

Contracting without a license creates a lot of problems and leaves a lot of victims. Maybe not in this particular case.

That said, 3 years sounds far-fetched. I cannot imagine he will get that.

And Chucky has it 100% right on. If the guy was illegally in the country, they would be giving him the red carpet treatment.

Yosemite - You are wrong about "illegals" getting the red carpet. In my experience, "illegals" who commit crimes, do their time and are deported. In the act of their deportation, they rarely, if at all, pay fines.

This is simply about control and nothing more...like having to obtain a written prescription to buy certain medicine...or having to pay for a vet visit when you know what medicine you need..we are all considered inadequate and therefor all these controls or codes are needed to keep us lowly peasants in line....and yes we are kept under this control for the making of profits for those who have the most to gain from the legal control mechanisms in place...which they helped fashioned and put into place via lobbyists etc. Follow the contractor money trail and you will find out who profits and why...its all about controls. The word freedom is an illusion created inside a box of laws and codes and controls....it appears that everyday more of our freedoms are slipping away...because of the many used mechanisms of fear.... like the one we have seen used here.

Seth, I have to respectfully disagree with you. This man had been caught before and given a peripheral sentence. He had his warning on more than one occasion. Now, he’s going to have to pay. It’s sad, I agree, but he doesn’t get preferential treatment.

As a licensed contractor for over 15 years, I applaud the Contractors State License Board's effort to prosecute unlicensed contractors who prey on victims of disasters. With the understanding that Mr. Scott was merely looking for work, there are rules to follow involving the trades and if he had followed those rules, he would not be in trouble with the law and he could be making a lot more money as a licensed contractor.

The contractor's licensing laws are there to protect consumers from fraudulent scammers and shoddy workmanship but they also protects the contractor from deadbeat clients who decide not to pay after the work is done. Sorry, Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Why should anyone be exempt from following the same laws that I have to follow?

Well gee lets see... "he could be making a lot more money as a licensed contractor."...please explain how does that happen...why would anyone make "a lot more money" due to having a license? How can a "piece of paper" make more money out of thin air?

Then...how can a fence "cost more" when the homeowner is forced to use your services... as a licensed contractor... because you make "a lot more money"? I believe the original story was... this man was already employed by the home owner prior to this tragic fire...I hardly would call this ...preying on fire victims...if he did actually did provide the normal landscape maintenance prior to this fire.

It appears the homeowners may have wanted to pay "a lot less money" to someone they already new and trusted..after receiving several "licensed contractor" bids. Should I fix my car at my time + part...or should I take it to a certified garage at...+$90.00 per hour rates+ part or dealer at $150.00 per hour + part? Do you see nay problems with these price gouging comparisons as a licensed contractor?

I hired a "licensed contractor" to do a pre-sale inspection. I then asked him to put GFI plugs in the home I am currently in as a condition of escrow. The seller paid for it. I found out later, that he charged the poor elderly widow, $650.00 to put in four GFI plugs. The power stopped working in most of my kitchen a few months later. I called him out, thinking it was from something he had done since the electricity worked fine before I bought the place. He did some checking here & there and said I needed new wiring and it was my responsibility. Funny he never mentioned it when he did the inspection. THinking that I had faulty wiring, but then out of money, I did nothing. A few months ago, a friend of mine came over, took a plate off and found that one of the GFI plugs the guy put in had caught fire inside my wall, which was probably the reason the circuit was broke. I have been in this home for four years now, unable to use my disposal, the plugs along the counter-tops, my hallway light and not able to call in an electrician to see if my friend was correct, let alone do something to fix it. I can't even complain about it to the Contractor's Board because I am not certain of my instinct. That is my experience with licensed contractors...

Just one of millions of stories and where the truth would hurt the contracting board. Here is one. I had a patio laid around 1500 sq ft by a licensed contractor who was suppose to know what he was doing...but to my dismay... when I inspected the completed work the pad cut break lines were "not cut" thru the entire distance across the pad from side to side. If the break lines are not cut the entire distance side to side...then the pad will crack every where...and not inside the break lines as they are designed to do.. as it settles...and now I have cracks everywhere...hmmmm. I did not realize that.. I... had to be the expert on the job...and not the licensed contractor. So yes...the homeowner has to be vigilant and knowledgeable of all work that is being done by everyone........ licensed or not.

P.S. if this guy charged this old lady $650.00 for 4 GFI's...it is this licensed contractor... that should be taken off to jail!

Observer....

My email is gruberelectric@earthlink.net.

I live in Auburn. I would like to offer you a free assessment of your electrical situation to make sure there are no existing hazards. Should there be, I will fix it for free to restore your faith in at least one licensed contractor. I am also very interested in speaking personally with the previouse electrician and would like to show you how easy it is to file a complaint with the CSLB.

Observer,

You might consider taking MikeGruber up on his offer. How can you beat free?

When GFI receptacles are wired in a series and the one at the beginning of the line either goes bad, or is tripped doing its job, you lose power to all the plugs down the line. There could be a very easy explanation and remedy for your electrical problem.

Seth,

Jeff Scott doesn't deserve to go to prison for his transgressions against society, but he does need to go get a license like thousands of others who respect the law.

If you don't see that, then you're in for a long hard life.

Now this is what I love about AJ blogging! Great thread.

Gulliver/Gruber: You guys go. Such a relief to hear (see) the voice of reason. This fam has had nothing but good luck with licensed contractors.

I am sure there are pros and cons to both sides of this thread. but having been involved a regulated industry well over forty years, if one really investigates, there is no question that the regulators if not in the beginning will favor those whom they are to control. There are so many areas where this is the case and the trillions of dollars taken illegally from the federal treasury verifies that. After all it was the regulated banks that received billions of our money. That was the scheme to rob the nation so those in power could protect the corporations rather than the people whom they claim the regulations were put in place to protect. The small businesses didn't benefit form this heist nor did the average citizen who will end up paying for it. There is a way to regulate with out giving another government agency control over our lives and that is through small claims court. Anyone can file a claim in that court system and if they have a legitimate claim they will generally be able to get redress in their difference with anyone licensed or otherwise.

GB..great comment...in small claims court I know the court can render a judgement..but I do not believe they can render enforcement of the payment to the winning party. So even though a party may win... I think there is no guarantee they will receive payment? I may be wrong..and Observer may have the correct answer. It is sad the way we where taken for a ride by the financial market.

Unlicensed contractors can do work that does not exceed $1000.00. I have friends who are licensed contractors and when I need something done that they don't do, I ask them for a recommendation. Not all licensed contractors have equal skill and craftsmanship. Hiring someone without recommendations or references is stupid.

Jon - Perhaps I was stupid. I had to find an appraiser who was qualified. This guy I chose had a license, a fairly good size ad in the yellow pages and a "fish" sign on his ad. I had a bookstore to run, a child to drop off & pick up everyday and a host of other responsibilities. Perhaps I should have spent more time asking around, I just didn't think it was necessary because, after all, he was ok'd by the State. My mistake...

Mike - I will email you. Your offer is a generous one and because my almost completely blind mother lives with us and I want her safe, I will take you up on it.

Observer....

It will be my pleasure.

Update - I have sent the email to Mike Gruber and will give him all the information about the previous contractor. Mike - you give me hope :-)

I wonder how Seth would feel about Medical Doctors being freed from regulation...., and lawyers, bankers, finacial advisors, stock brokers, police officers, EMTs, teachers, engineers, dentists, auto-makers, insurance providers, mechanics, adoption agencies, day-care providers, accountants, realtors, nurses, pharmacist, psychologists, security gaurds, veterinarians, manufacturers, food and water suppliers....etc....etc.

All these professions " groveling to the state for permission to work".

No, instead of thinking for a second, Seth has decided to just set up camp around this criminal and plant his flag and declare that America is a fascist state.

Just because I am not allowed to perform brain surgery does not mean I'm shackled and chained to my fate as long as I am free to persue that as a career. And last time I checked....there was nothing stopping me.

I am free to do so....

Get it Seth?

Obewan: You are generally correct about small claims court. You may win the case and get a money judgment, but then you have to collect it. Many judgments are simply uncollectible. But if you get a judgment against a contractor arising from the contractor's licensed activity, all you have to do is write to the Contractor's License Board. The CLB will not renew the contractor's license unless the contractor pays the judgment.

gulliver,

You can also go after a contractors bond.

Often the Bonding Company will pay fairly quickly on a legitimate claim. If the bond is redeemed to the consumer, and the contractor is unable to put up a new bond, his license is suspended.

Without a license.....well......you can end up like Jeff Scott.

To go after the license bond, I think you have to prove that the contractor willfully violated the Contractor's License Law. The bond works fine where, as sometimes happens, the contractor abandons the job and disappears. Where there is a colorable dispute, however, the bond may not be available because even if the contractor is found liable, that does not necessarily mean the contractor acted willfully.

colorable dispute?

Example please!

"Unlicensed contractors can do work that does not exceed $1000.00."

--JonGreen.

CSLB posts this number at $500.

And that includes both labor and materials.

Mike...love your way of thinking... and based on a few of your examples above...the licenses some of these people received ...where actually licenses to steal! I guess you forgot about the most recent example of $650.00 for 4 GFI's....lets see was that $650.00 for one hour of work...or maybe two hours...nice rate? Clearly take your time and look at any industry license you mentioned and tell me how is it going? You see any greed problems in your above listing....anywhere? How about our current government budgets and dollar short falls etc....any of it caused by any of these licensed people in your above listing? Arrogance and greed appears to behave like a disease........

References and three bids or it's your fault.

Mike, thanks for the correction, I confused the $ with the maximum prepayment.

Pretty awesome stuff going on here, Mike G. you’re a good man. I’m proud to be part of this blogger family today.

I can't imagine being stuck and unable to use your disposal, kitchen plugs etc for 4 years after buying a house, and being at safety risk. Great for Mike to make an offer to help. I'll be keeping him in mind myself, as we are home shopping and would like to prevent terrible situations like the one Observer finds self in. More than one inspection isn't overkill, when you're making a commitment as big as a home purchase.

Obewan,

I think you entirely missed the point.

I don't know how you expect anything to work if a person can just put up a sign in a store front or an ad in the paper and claim they have the experience to qualify to provide a particular service without some certification process. Do some of these certified folks break the law to make unearned money? Yes. Does that mean we need to do away with all regulation and certification? Not in the slightest...actually it means we need to increase the penalties and increase accountability in these areas to protect consumers. I can't believe you don't see the free-for-all that would ensue....

This CSLB does not license known felons and folks who do not have the qualifications to work on people's homes and businesses. This is designed to protect the people from criminals and sub-standard, potentially dangerous work. How can anybody have a problem with that?

A licensed contractor installed a sub-standard concrete pad at your house, you say, so do something about it. Have you even bothered to take step #1 to resolve the issue with the very system you are condeming as meaningless?

I can't tell you how many times I have been undercut by unlicensed people who are only allowed to submit such absurd prices because they use illegal labor, don't pay taxes, don't have a bond or insurance, etc.... It does not mean I have a "license to steal", it only takes away all protections for the consumer.

What's your "license to steal" Obe?

Jon Green said it earlier.

Get references and a few bids for any job.

And I'd add a few things....get everything in writing. Any changes and addtional work added to a project needs to be written down for additional cost beyond the contracted price before the work is even started.

Check the staus of the contractors insurance, bond, and workmens compensation policies.

Set up a solid payment plan.

At start up, $X ($1000 or 10% of complete price, which ever is less, by law).

At the 50 yard line based on this-this-and this being completed to your 100% satisfaction...$Y.

And balance due upon completion which means this-this-and this completed to your 100% satisfaction....$Z.

HOLD ONTO THE MONEY.

Get what you are paying for and don't pay for it before you get it.

Mike..sorry I did not miss the point...you have. I appreciate your thoughts about the matter and no I did not say to stop any regulation or licensing of business. My point was a license or certification of any sort ....does not give any person the right to steal from consumers.

I referred you back to the $650.00 up charge..and you ignored it...and no not everyone is a crook...but it appears to be on the increase everywhere around us. These overcharges and high rates do create a problem for everybody involved in the business world...and yes even our government that is 70 trillion in the red.....because they are paying the going high license per hour rates for work that is protected and locked in by boards and unions etc. I appreciate you helping out Observer...and that makes you a standup guy....hope there exists more like you out there in contracting license land. My patio will be fine..its concrete and I am not about to rip it up or patch it....the point I was making on that thread was.... that a contractor license means nothing if the work is done improperly. Yes...its a tough business climate today and prices are still falling...yet a couple of years ago it was clearly scam city...you know the fraudulent supply and demand issues we see daily...everyone was overcharging everybody... because they could.

Contractor's licensing laws have become a necessity as their are many individuals that have no conscience. It also makes it more difficult for someone to work being paid "under the table", therefore the state will get the tax generated by the work that was done. Licenses don't protect you as much as your ability to recognize those you contract with to be honest as well as knowledgeable. Once the cement dries or the walls are sealed you better hope you hired a competent contractor. If you are really concerned and you know that small claims court can be a remedy, check and make sure the contractor owns something that you can place a lien against before the work begins. Pessimism at its best. I'm cynical only because I am old enough to remember that a hand shake was as good as gold.

Obe...

We are on the same page but there is one sentence hanging us up.

You say, "that a contractor license means nothing if the work is done improperly."

I say that is why it means everything!

You have an entire organization that licensed contractor is tied to in order to adress any and all issues. It is in the contractors best interest to do quality work or the board will respond to complaints and hold him accountable.

With a "Jeff Scott" you are basically on your own and should his illegal employee cut his hand off on your property then you are suddenly in a position to get sued.

Imagine that...a simple fence project and a few bushes and with one slip your homeowners insurance company is scrammbling their lawyers to show the court that it was your fault for hire an unlicensed contractor.

That is why it means everything!

The "Jeff Scotts" out there are walking a liability, and when he is on your property that liabilty becomes yours.

fourgen,

Your cynicism is justified.

Test

Well then we agree...I like the handshake concept...its so sad that it has disappeared along with words of honor .

Mike...one other thing...I hire Bobby to cut down a tree and Bobby then hires me...and I cut my hand off...who is responsible? I drive down the road and I lose control and hit a pole in my car...who is responsible? I walk into a grocery store and slam a refrigerator door on my hand...who is responsible? A policeman shoots a criminal in the line of duty..who is responsible? Is anyone responsible anywhere any more for any of their own actions? Here is the deal when we all get a universal health care public option we won't need any workman comp coverage anymore..that is gone. You hurt your self..you go get it fixed... and return to work the same day. Everyone should be responsible for the own actions..........you cut your own hand off trimming bushes or installing a fence anywhere....who is really responsible? The moron holding the saw.....

Obe...

Your utopian view of self-responsibility is entertaining at best, but hardly applies to any aspect of our lives today.

The push-n-pull of Insurance and Litigation is how we built this "modern world" that is all around us. That suddenly one handed "moron" holding the saw is only as dumb as the attorney that takes the case to court against a home owner's insurance company if said moron was working illegally.

That is the subject I'm adressing here, the landscape as it is, not as it should be.

Jeff Scott is a parasite and his host is the customers liability and building industry he hides in.

Nowhere did I read in Mr. King's comments that a person should be uneducated in their profession. Even in a free society - or one without government control - one has to demonstrate proficiency. In fact, maybe even more so. Since many of you seem to feel hanging a "license" on the wall automatically means your are qualified, you don't bother to ask for references. In a free market, worker's reputations would rely on skill and referrals. My stepdad years ago hired a licensed contractor to build his house. He paid cash in a draw system of sorts. Turned out the house was done well, but the contractor owed the IRS bigtime! Didn't pay all of his subs, and left the state. Cost my stepdad an extra $30,000 in 1981. No recourse there. Sorry, I know lots of licensed crooks. And lots of handyman who are honest. Give me a better argument, folks. You are brainwashed.

It is sad but true....we have all been brainwashed and it continues daily......

Getacluepeople-

Nowhere on this post did I see anyone write that a licensed contractor is a Knight in Shinning Armor incapable taking advantage of his access to consumers. Given a customer checks that all liability, bonds, and workmens comp insurance policies are up to date and apply to the work at hand...that is the primary protection the contract is under. Cash payments with draws "of sorts".....? The IRS will go after the contractor for back taxes (though they might wonder why the customer had so much cash on hand to build an entire house) not your stepdad. Before making any final payment to the contractor a customer should make absolutley sure, in writing, that all sub-contractors and materials have been paid for in full and there are no outstanding liens on his property. That is what YOU do to protect such a large investment.

The honesty of an uninsured handyman working illegally on your property means nothing when his femur is sticking through his thigh and the ambulance is backing in. The dishonesty of a licensed contractor who takes flight means nothing if he hasn't been paid IN ADVANCE for any work or materials provided. There is an entire organization that will come down on his head and bonds available to make claims to.

Would you let your uninsured kid drive out into a Friday night in your SUV knowing that if by chance someone gets killed by that car you are going to lose everything? I think not. It all comes down to PROTECTION, for both parties.

Fear based economics... is very effective especially when you mention the insurance and lawyers rolls in our society...we could only dream of having that kind of money flowing into other industries that basically push paper for a living....while the whole time making massive amounts of money off the general populations stupidity. Very similar to the banking and financial markets we see imploding...around us.

Here is an old one and 42 million is not bad...for a budget...and I wonder who built this country from 1776 until 1935.. must have been immigrants...some areas in this report were pretty laxed...I have the license... and my employee does the work...so who knows if it is done right. I guess this is why I see 8 guys standing around on a road project... as only one worker is seen in the hole and is actually the only one doing work... shoveling the dirt. 9 guys for one hole and we wonder why we have budget problems....Mike I understand your fear.......

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:BBlaNC6wwoYJ:www.sen.ca.gov/ftp/SEN/COMMITTEE/JOINT/SUNSET_REVIEW/_home/csl_1997.doc+first+year+establishment+of+california+state+contractors+board+1935&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari