"Dead Bear Hanging by one Leg in a Front yard" Maybe F&G wants to look at this. I hate bear hunters. They don't really hunt. A pack of dogs (pitbulls, Airedales, hounds) trees the the dog. The hunter then shoots it with a large caliber pistol or revolver. Sometimes the bear turns and fights the dogs. The bear usually wins and the entire pack is torn to pieces. Brutal.

You could introduce yourself and ask them if your grandson can stay and learn how to butcher a bear.

Might even get a pound of stew meat you can cook for him and he can take it to school for show and tell,

maybe a tooth or a claw too.

But alas, such masculine behavior is frowned upon these days. Your son would surely be sent home from

school and prescribed Ritalin to take the edge off those destructive inate male attributes such as provider,

protector, and warrior.

Yah. We'd all be better off if we were women.

No more Hunting....let's all knit something together.

This is tacky. I'm sure it'll get pulled once morning comes.

Want a shock of truth?

Well here it is.

I had a mother and 2 cubs at my house last year and wanted to rescue them and move them to a safe location. That is when I learned the truth about Fish and Game.

Their rule is "KILL EVERYTHING" that's right, they wanted to kill the mother and cubs on the spot. The mother bear was shot and killed by a wimpy little man who thought he was superman by gunning down this poor mother that I had many times talked to and observed from no more than 10 feet away. She was just trying to feed her cubs until she could find a way to the mountains. This was at the time of the forest hill fires and she lost her grazing grounds.

I was able to get the cubs rescued by a group in Tahoe at their expense and at possible arrest. The fish and game wasted to arrest anyone who tried to rescue them. they just want them all killed as a matter of rule. They say they cant be returned to the Forrest. we know that is pure B*&&sh#$. It is done all the time by those who really care.

So, when confronted by local bear and cubs, DO NOT CALL FISH AND GAME-EVER!!!!

We should get rid of them, they are a cancer in the Forrest.

dhurley

Is that what the Mother Bear told you....she just wanted a bite for the little ones and a ride back to the forest?

I had no idea F&G was just a front for destroyers of the animal kingdom.

Wow. I'm glad you brought this all out in the open.

One final thought....you are lucky Mommy Bear didn't feed you to the cubs.

give me a break. I've got a better chance of being accidentally killed by some hunter than getting killed by a bear.

27 fatal bear attacks in all of North America since 2000.

That's about how many people are killed A YEAR by hunters in the US, and no, not all of those killed were hunters themselves. http://www.ihea.com/news-and-events/incident-reports/index.php

I'm really sorry to hear that about that momma bear. I hope this wasn't the same bear with cubs which frequented the area I used to live. I'd observed her from a respectful distance as well, numerous times. That really is sad.

It's bear season. We are only at around 300 tags turned in so far, have either 1,400 more to go, or until Dec. 27th. http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/bear/harvest.html They call it a harvest. Sounds nicer than saying a slaughter I guess. I don't like it but I have less of a problem with sustenance hunting, my real dislike is for the type of hunters who go out and hunt with no respect for the life they are taking and with an entitlement attitude about wildlife. And report all scumbag poachers! 1 888 DFG-CALTIP (888 334-2258)

Kitty: It's usually the lot of small, insecure men with tiny appendages that get off on making infantile comments like "yep, bet it tastes good" and whatnot. Idiotic. That, or they're twelve.

You're right about my chances of being attacked by a bear. I've personally been inn the immediate company of literally hundreds of bears in the back country and never once did it frighten me. (I used to work in Yosemite) I have a better chance of being attacked by someone's pet dog than I do a bear.

The fearful tend to be the most foolish.

Mike Gruber: You were right on with your first comment! Something about reality scares people like the letter writer. No need to comment further. You said it all.

Mike - We don't have cause to be "hunters & gatherers" in this country, at this time, as much as we once did. For that reason, we need to re-think our values and move forward. You comments on women & mothers (humans & bears) tells me that the feminine virtues of nurturing are lacking somewhere here. The male part of males needs to be complimented with a lesser female influence (it is the same for females, but in reverse). It's called anima/animus. It's objective is proper balance in us being fully human...

MikeGruber, Your posts were right on. I completely agree that male atributes are being shown as negative. What most women and some men can't uderstand is the male desire to hunt and take animals. Why are men afraid to stand up and defend it?

Birch: California venison doesn't taste good. I'm over twelve and won't address the other part. You sound somewhat ignorant making an emotion statement like that regarding hunting and hunters. All the hunters I know and associate with are humble and respectful. It's about being self sufficient, not having to rely too much on others. It is very satifying to take and prepare your own meat. Some people get the same stisfaction from starting and maintaining a garden. Stop killing the carrots.

Observer: We don't have to hunt and gather but that doesn't mean we shouldn't choose to. There is nothing wrong with hunting for our own meat, cleaning and skinning the animal ourselves and storing the meat in our freezer. You know, I saw a family out gathering black berries the other day. Maybe I should write a blog about that, how they shouldn't do that any longer because they don't have to.

Fact is, men were "Created" with the characteristics listed by MikeGruber: Provider, Protector, Warrior.

CCR1022: California Venison tastes great! I can give you recipies if you like.

CCR1022: I have no problem with hunters. Bear hunting, on the other hand, is retarded.

It's the same as the meat hanging upside down @ the butchers. I feel sorry for the hunter who has to live there and doesn't have room to do what he needs to do.

Birch - I love bears, but I think you have been fortunate. I worked for four summers in West Yellowstone back in the late 60's and early 70's. One of my brother's still lives in West.

When I worked there, people were injured or killed by bears every year. They got too comfortable and careless around the bears in the park. My brother and many of his friends have been treed by bears.

While I do not advocate bear hunting, and would be unhappy if F&G killed the animals around my house (other than the skunks or a bold mountain lion) I think dhurley was fortunate she did not have an unpleasant encounter with the momma bear, especially in the presence of cubs.

If conservatives don't like hunting, they don't go hunting

If libs don't like hunting, NOBODY should hunt.

Upchuxxr, the methods of so called hunting you described are illegal in Ca, therefore someone doing that would be a poacher, not a hunter. Go force your socialist liberal beliefs on someone else

MikeGruber: What exactly the hell is your problem?? Go troll somewhere else.

WhatIsay: I tried several different recipies but my family couldn't get past the wildness. We really enjoy wild pig and wild turkey. My son, who is 12 years old, has become very adept at cleaning and skinning animals. We hunt together and have a respect for hunting and animals. Makes me laugh when I hear the ascertions that children who hunt grow up with violent tendancies. My brothers and I grew up near our grandfather, who had cattle. A couple of times during the year he would slaughter a cow and skin it from one of his trees. When my brother and I woke up in the morning and saw the cow hanging it was exciting to go down the hill and help skin it with our little pocket knives. Gave us the proper attitude toward animals and life.

Birch: I don't hunt bears as I will never eat it. If a hunter eats bear meat why does it bother you that they hunt it?

Steelybob: What did MikeGruber say that was so offensive? He is passionate but not insulting. I liked one of his first comments, suggesting to

Dominique that she introduce herself to the bear hunter and let her grandson learn how to skin an animal. My experiences are that most boys are interested in animal parts and usually aren't offended by a dead animal. It's the reaction of their parent of grandparent that forms their opinions.

While I was away I missed Yahooligan's post about the differences between conservatives and liberals and I have to agree. It does seem that the liberals, or those on the left, tend to push their values on everyone else. I bet that opens a big can. I wish Yahooligan hadn't *!&^#%ized ChuxxR's name, it usually turns the posts into name calling and takes the fun out of it.

CCR1022: Of what value were MikeGruber's comments other than being snide & obnoxious? Re-read dhurley's post.

Famous last words: "Look a mama bear, and the cubs are so cute."

Observer, "animal/animus" nice reading thanks I love balance.

Steelybob,

Of all the snide and obnoxious comments written here in the past, these by MikeGruber are tame by any measure.

If we're now going to start gauging whether someone's comments are of "value", then I believe very few would pass any reasonable test of that question.

I don't necessarily agree with MikeGruber, nor do I disagree with him, but his comments are just as welcome to a site like this as any others posted by the occasional or regular user.

Anything short of that could be considered censorship or, at the very least, negative peer pressure intended to shut someone up!

Didn't we just go through something similar to this with Allen Cassidy?

Well said, gregcalac. I felt Allen Cassidy & loycer were being "shut out" so I appreciate your statement , too. I love the line from Robin Hood, about "Allah loves wondrous variety". It wasn't used in context to postings but I think when everyone throws in their thoughts a more balanced view emerges. It's what is really wrong with our government at all most every level right now (the far right & far left are leading and drowning out the moderation of the many).

In as much as MikeGruber can post his thoughts and opinions (we all have them remember like something else), Steelybob can continue to call MikeGruber a troll if it indeed makes him feel better. I'm quite confident Mike can hold his own as well.

Ding-Ding. Let the games begin. Or continue.

kud,

I must admit, it could be said that I was guilty of "shut (ting) out" Cassidy with comments I made. I wasn't really attempting to stop Allen from posting his thoughts, I just happened to agree with some of the others that it would have been nice for him to engage in the comments section after posting his blog. Some people took exception to the pestering that ensued when he would not reply to direct questions. That's his choice, but it made his blog posts seem pretty much like a decree from Caesar rather than innocent musings of a nice man from Auburn.

As for loycer, I am ambivalent. Sometimes I enjoy her writing and other times it seems like she's humping someone's leg. You make the call.

There is a War in America, a War on boys.

Masculinity has been demonized in our disfunctional educational system.

Boys are diagnosed with ADD 3 times more often than girls. Forty percent of Ritalin prescriptions in the US are for children between the ages of 3 and 9. Within that group, 80 percent are boys.

"Driven to Distraction", by Hallowell & Rately, "The War Against Boys", by Christina Hoff Summers are worth a look.

I believe we are still suffering from that damage done to the American Family by the failed feminist movement of the 60's-70's. Fatherless homes have direct connections with youth violence and the drive to rid boys of their inate masculine tendencies and raise them all like little girls is tearing kids up. Competition is discouraged on playgrounds and keeping score at a weekend soccer game is considered rude; everyone gets a trophy and if Billy kisses my daughter in kindergarden it is sexual harrassment. Folks are wondering what is with the kids these days while I am not surprised at all when I hear of drop-out rates, declining male college attendance, school shootings, gang violence, divorce, child abuse, etc....

Of course their are other factors, there are 60 seconds to every minute, but the kids are exposed to it all.

100 years ago a bear hanging in a tree would mean food, celebration, success.

Today it is "murder" and degenerate behavior.

Observer- your post sums up what I consider the very problem.

steelybob- have a nice day.

steelybob: I appreciated MikeGruber's comments on this issue and didn't really notice a high level of snide or obnoxious attitude. Some use sarcasm to make a point. Maybe I am partial as I totally agree with his position. I re read dhurley's post and can't find anything new that would make me think differently. Actually, I am somewhat sceptical of the story. I have had some experience with DFG, and haven't seen that attitude (Kill everything). Why is it we trust their decision when they decide to let water flow here and not there, but if they decide to kill or move an animal the sensitive people cry foul. Are they the authority or not? In any case, there is a small minority group in our society who are overcome with compassion for animals. They feel they are right and everyone should feel the same as they do. I am concerned that their screams will intrude on my priveledge to hunt. Those of us who appreciate our freedoms and liberty need to stand up and voice our oposition to them. Where's my soapbox?

CCR1022,

You don't need that soapbox. Everyone can hear you where you are. In my opinion you've just posted a nice, reasonable counter point.

CCR said: 'It does seem that the liberals, or those on the left, tend to push their values on everyone else." I think both sides do this, just with different issues. If the right doesn't like a library book, they want it removed from the shelves. If they don't like Halloween, they try to get schools to have "harvest" festivals instead. I guess we all care so much about each other that we want to protect one another from what we perceive to be destructive or dangerous....

CCR1022

......I think your standing on it.

You are on point here.

I am against the genderless agenda and look at every attempt to curtail my liberties seriouisly.

When I was real young we were renting a house that was near a cattle yard of sorts, there were community gandens and places to bring your livestock. One day, and I'll remember it for the rest of my life, they processed a cow. Shot it in the head, bled him out, hoisted him in the air and butchered him down to bones. It was an incredible sight, nothing wrong with any of it. In fact, I think it would have made a heck of a feild trip for kids. But not anymore...

If the DFG did not tag 1700 bears for hunters these bear populations would soon strand themselves. Conflicts with bears would rise and several would starve or be killed by other bears competing for resources; natures way of balancing their numbers. To think the DFG just throws a random number of bear tags to their murdering friends is absurd.

I'm tired of wreckless emtionally mixed up people trying to take my guns away and their attempts to alienate hunters.

Ordering your first latte' with mommy from the SUV she got in the divorce at the Starbucks drive thru is not a rite of passage into manhood; rites of which are all but absent today. No wonder young men are creating their own unguided versions and we are shocked by the news. Hunting is good for a boys soul, no matter what Mom and her therapist thinks.

Mike - Although I don't really like everything you are saying, I have to say I agree with you in part. I am the mom to two young men. When they were in elementary school it made me crazy the way little boys were disregarded. Book reports were no longer book reports, but craft projects or something else that depended on a trip to the store for supplies. Forget content, it was all about how much into Martha Stewart your mom was (you know, scrapbooking, making costumes, etc.) Neatness counted, "creativity" counted, reading and understanding the book? Well that counted a little, but not enough to make up for the rest. If kids (boys) got restless and made a commotion - they lost recess. Now how does that make any sense. Send 'em outside to run a few laps to burn off the steam.

I still have a story that one of my kids dictated to me when he was about 4. One of the grocery stores had a contest for kids to make up a story that featured vegetables. My son's story featured all kinds of vegetable chopping each other's heads off and dismembering one another in assorted ways. Needless to say, we did not enter it into the contest. But we never did take them hunting and the only gun handling they ever had was in Boy Scouts. Just not what our family is into.

Making a connecting between gender and hunting doesn't hold water. Many males have been raised by single parents of both sexes some hunt some don't. I also know and grew up with hunting females, my grandmother could shoot as well as grandpa. Males that never touched a gun in their life are no less masculine than those that have gun based hobbies. Hunting is a cultural bias pure and simple. You either have been indoctrinated to it at some time in your life or you haven't. I was raised in a hunting family by a single female that hunted. My niece hunts deer with my nephews and both her parents. I don't have any trouble with the legal taking of game but hanging it for all to see including small children was disrespectful to the neighborhood and in poor taste. Culture war theories sell a lot of books but they are usually about seeing hoof prints and thinking zebra instead of horse. Is this story really about hunting or just manners?

Observer, We do, indeed, have a need to hunt and gather, in this country, especially. It wasn’t long ago I was reading your posts with Pollywog about nutrition. I was raised on wild meat. It is far healthier to eat than the “livestock” that is raised with steroids and so sedentary that they fatten up. Wild meat is approximately 7 times less fat. It is far better for you than the meat you purchase from the stores. I think the homeowner could have been a little more respectful of his/her neighbors, but there is nothing wrong with hunting bear. I have never shot a bear because I don’t like the meat. Not long ago, I returned from a deer hunting trip where my two friends shot their bears as they love the meat more than venison; to each his own. Why would anyone want to take away someone’s rights just because they don’t take part in that particular activity? I don’t participate in the “gay parade” in San Francisco, but I wouldn’t want to take away their right to the parade; to each his own. I have serious doubts about the DFG killing the mother of cubs story. I have worked with many of the DFG officials and don’t believe that story at all. I have read so many lies put forth by anti-hunters; they attempt to muster up the emotions of people that don’t hunt but aren’t against it either. Their goal is to turn people away from recognizing hunting as valid so they come up with these fake stories.

…continued. Kitty, Fist you talk about hunter incidence in “The U.S.” That includes non-lethal incidence. Then, you compare it to “fatal” incidence only in North America from bears, hardly comparing apples to apples here. I know that there are some bad hunters, people that shouldn’t be holding a gun, but the majority of them are very responsible people that love their heritage and the meat they take from the field.

Patrick - I gave the number of fatal bear attacks in all of North America since 2000, which came to 27. Then I stated that was the number of people killed in one year by hunters in the US. Are you saying you would like for me to include statistics for the number of people also killed in Canada? That 27 isn't the number of people who were involved in non lethal shootings, that number is 200+. I gave facts, do with them what you will. I don't like hunting, and I have the right to say so. I fail to see why the fact that I find it barbaric matters, or why anyone else doing so results in some of the asinine assertions and lectures I'm seeing here. I also fail to see where my abhorrence to it is equal to saying I want to take away someone's right to do so, nor did I see a single person on here say that. Don't project intentions where there are none.

CA_4 made some good points. Further, bears are to be respected and efforts should be made at all times to make them afraid of you by making lots of noise to scare them away. For their benefit and yours. Also, there was a misstatement earlier (and I'll ignore the rest of the most asinine post on this thread) that dogs are no longer used. B.S. http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/bear-87538-hunter-lucero.html

Before some fool makes a comment about the bear attacking him, he was wounded, what do you expect.

Patrick, I should have said PLEASE don't project intentions, as I wish to be polite to you. To be honest, some of the posts on here really angered me. I'm not even going to bother addressing them. It's pointless. But still, I'm really pissed off.

Come on kittyv,

Are you taking all this personally?

CA04_Voter

Don't recall saying you have to hunt and own firearms to be a man.

I did say there is a War on Boys by liberal feminist and their genderless agenda.

I did say that there is a lack of guidance for boys entering manhood.

I did say a young man taking his first deer is honorable moment.

To think you can just replace the need for masculine identity in young boys with straw is teaching the boy to hate himself.

That has been going on for decades now and it has backfired. Instead of hating yourself just hate everything else and lash out at the world. Somewhere, in America (it's around here somewhere), there is a boy on his first hunt with his Dad, Uncle, and Grandpa. That is a huge moment for that boy. I wish there were more opportunities for boys to have those experiences.

Connection? I think so.

Pointing out that a few women hunt does not severe my point.

Just ask kittyv....she loves me.

Kitty, project intentions? Am I to believe that you wouldn’t vote out hunting if you had the chance? Come on. My point is to simply compare North America to North America, that’s all. There weren’t very many fatal hunting fatalities in the West. Hunting fatalities are down and dropping when compared to historical numbers. I’m not saying bear attacks are often. I know they are not. Making statements, for example, calling it slaughter rather than harvest is inflammatory. Did you know that our bear population in California is somewhere around 19000? We have so many bear in this state right now; it’s unbelievable. I don’t hunt bear, only because I don’t like the meat. BTW, AB1423 was just signed into law today protecting the rights of hunters from the anti’s. I’m just bringing that to everyone’s attention. I’m not trying to rub that in anyone’s nose. Have a great night.

Gender bias in hunting holds a lot of water. Sure, plenty of women hunt, but I believe they hunt because a man introduced them to hunting, and hunts with them. I would love to guess at the gender percentage of hunters, but I won't. Nothing wrong with a female hunter, in fact its great, but I believe it is typically a male interest. But take the hunting out of it, I suspect that most men who might have seen that bear hanging would look at it with interest and not disapproval. Call us cave men if you want, but a man is not offended by dead animals. On the other hand, the female has the nurturing instinct and doesn't care for the sight of death. There is a difference between the genders.

Jayber, excellent observation and statement. That last story was funny.

There is a fantastic book which speaks to this and other related issues that is a must read for

hunters and free men (those who own firearms):

"The Seven Myths of Gun Control" by Richard Poe.

Outstanding!

I am not a hunter, but I know many hunters. Some are women, but its extremely rare. Of my two boys, one likes to fish and hunt, the other would prefer to play video games. Both are honest, work hard, and intelligent.Whether someone likes to hunt or not is not a matter of intelligence, but rather interest. In my opinion, hunting bears is a good thing if done properly, legally, and the person who does it eats their kill or provides it to others for eating.

With my one son who likes to hunt, I trained him in proper firearm safety, took him on hunts, taught him how to process an animal, and ensured that he understood that eating your kill was a requirement. If you do not want to eat it, do not kill it. (We made an exception for varmints like ground squirrels, rats, mice, etc which damaged property)

The bear hunter cited above appears to have discretely hung the bear where he had a good solid hanging site. Nothing wrong with that. Given the quality of fence, etc.. its most likely that this person is going to eat the meat. Good for him.

MikeG: You make many good points.

Snips and snails, and puppy-dog tails....