Youth deer
hunt
is on
Resident calls plan a ‘slaughter’
Expanding a controversial youth deer hunt got the OK from Placer County’s Fish and Game Commission on Wednesday amid a rancorous discussion on both sides. Members voted 4-3 to accept the state’s recommendation, which amounts to tripling the number of antlerless deer from 25 to 75, which young hunters can kill across a broad swath of local lands. Commission members Rob Haswell and Kari Freidig dissented. But the advisory-only decision won’t dampen any passionate feelings, which flared during the standing-room-only meeting. “This is not a real sport, but cruel slaughter that only teaches killing – not sportsmanship,” Loomis resident James Hirshinger told the commission . State officials say the hunt expansion would help collect information on the area’s deer herd, expand hunting opportunities for youth ages 12-16 and could reduce the deer population, preventing deer-auto collisions. The proposal was brought to the fore after District 4 Supervisor Kirk Uhler raised the roadkill issue, asking the commission to look into it. “If we can take care of these issues with hunting rather than depredation, at least there’s a good use of the deer,” state biologist Craig Stowers said. Under the terms of the hunt, private landowners who want to participate would allow hunters onto their property in return for a stipend from the state. Anti-hunt advocates, many wearing signs asking to “ban the bogus deer hunt,” said that puts people nearby in danger, and questioned whether young hunters were properly trained. Most of those against the youth hunt were from Loomis and Granite Bay, where the roadkill problem has been pronounced, and where participating hunters could be directed. “There’s no research to justify it,” said Marilyn Jasper of Loomis. “Placer County already has an abundance of land for hunting opportunities.” Others, including third-grader Gemma Rose, of Loomis, spoke of preventing animal cruelty. “Me and my mom like watching the deer roam around,” Gemma said. “It would be very sad watching one die or be hurt.” But 14-year-old hunter Austin Shrader of Weimar said youth hunters are properly trained and respect the animals they take. “I come from a hunting background,” Austin said. “I’m safe and I know how to be safe with a gun.” Capt. Roy Griffith of the Department of Fish and Game said youth hunters have to complete a 10-hour course in hunter safety and ethics. “We find across the state of California, our junior hunter is the safest out there,” he said. Bob Smeja, of Loomis, agreed. “I mentored my boys and I mentored them in the field,” said the National Rifle Association member. “If you’re gonna be scared of every little thing, then don’t get in your car.” Pat Fitzmorris of Newcastle is the regional director of the California Deer Association. He said a controlled hunt is a “scientifically sound” way to reduce deer population. Brian Jagger, district director for Supervisor Kirk Uhler, said Wednesday night Uhler’s focus is on residents’ safety more than hunting. “If this helps, great, but were still looking at other options, like adding eight new deer warning signs,” he said. The Board of Supervisors holds veto power over the hunt expansion, but if a supervisor does not place the item on an upcoming agenda it will be considered OK with the county and go forward to the state’s Fish and Game Commission for approval. Loomis resident Janet Thew said her group, Ban the Bogus Deer Hunt, will push supervisors to take a vote on it. “If they think it’s a good idea they should stand up and say so,” she said. ------------------- Proposal: Expand number of deer tags available in the area from 25 to 75 Who would hunt: Hunters aged 12-16 would be eligible, as long as they’ve taken a hunting-safety course Where they could hunt: Under the state program called SHARE, private landowners in the D-4 area (including Loomis and Granite Bay) would give their permission for individuals to hunt on their property, in return for a stipend What happens next: The Placer County Board of Supervisors could reject the expansion. If supervisors do not take action, the expansion automatically goes to the state’s Fish and Game Commission for final approval.
Keywords
youth deer hunt, Placer County’s Fish and Game Commission, Rob Haswell, Kari Freidig, Loomis, James Hirshinger, District 4 Supervisor Kirk Uhler, state biologist Craig Stowers, Granite Bay, Marilyn Jasper, Gemma Rose, Austin Shrader, Weimar, Capt. Roy Griffith, Department of Fish and Game, Bob Smeja, National Rifle Association, Pat Fitzmorris, Newcastle, California Deer Association, Brian Jagger, Janet Thew, Ban the Bogus Deer Hunt,
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Uhler is a mugwump. With his mug on one side of the fence and his wump on the other. If the wind blows a certain way....he will soon condemn hunting alltogether and propose a program where he and volunteers will don crossing-guard regalia and signs and escort the deer across the road. He acts so innocent now, but his original proposal / fantasy was so absurd it would have justified a "72 hour hold" to evaluate him. And how long has this SHARE debacle been in existence? DFG, how many tax dollars go toward paying private land owners to huckster in the general public to hunt their property? Our budget is so tight that we are closing state parks, yet we want large ranchers to compete for money like amusement parks? You think a large property owner doesn't have friends and relatives and even strangers coming out of thei woodwork, kissing their fanny's to hunt their land? This is so absurd I start to wonder if Uhler had something to do with it. Seriously....how many tax dollars a year are we giving to property owners because hunters are too lazy and cheap to drive a little higher up the hill and hunt public land for free? I'm afraid to hear the answer. Unbelievable!
"“This is not a real sport, but cruel slaughter that only teaches killing – not sportsmanship,” Loomis resident James Hirshinger told the commission ."
Its ok if I get killed driving my motorcycle or car down the road and hit a deer., and the poor bambi's slaughtered by vehicles....perhaps James you would rather have more mountain lions running around to keep the deer population in check..but then you would complain your animals are being slaughtered....
There are lots of Does on English Colony Way and Butler Rd. Come and get them please.
Ahhh, the anti and their lies. Not only they heckled, insulted and denigrated our youth now they will start a campaign based on lies.
The hunt is on, just like it's been all the previous years. Granite Bay and Loomis are part of Zone D-4, in three weeks or thereabouts the season will begin and run for 37 consecutive days, there will not be "kiddies" running around your backyards slaughtering Bambi. If you are in an area in which the California Laws and Regulations do not allow hunting, then you will not see any hunters. In the area in question in the Granite Bay- Loomis section there are more portions that can't be hunted than those that can and they will need written permission from the owners to set foot on it.
Don't let lies and misinformation affect your thinking, there will not be throngs of blood thirsty, camo clad individuals of all ages roaming the streets and roads shooting at anything that moves.
Of course if they had their way, the antis would picture the kids as crazed, incompetent killers that will only wound the deer, then they would go to the rodeo to hone their cattle prod skills and the on to the circus to improve their bull stick techniques, then come home to become the next serial killers.
What a bunch, I hope you guys are proud of what you did and said to and about the children at the meeting, for my part, I am ashamed to be in your same age group.
Face it, this is nothing more than an effort to ban hunting and force every one to become vegetarians.
nicklebag, the Sheriff had two Deputies at the meeting in case you nutcases got out of hand, that came out of taxpayers money, don't talk about wasting money.
Do yourself and your nutcase friends a favor, stop by any sporting goods store and pick up a copy of California's Hunting Regulations, you are in Zone D-4, read it, try to understand them. You guys claim to be speaking for animals since they can't speak for themselves, I'm speaking for the children that you nut cases heckled and insulted at the meeting.
Who voted nay?
Did anybody notice that the AJ did not mention the heckling and harassing of the youth hunter when they made their case. The only mention of the anti-thinkers was " Sally Brucken of Auburn silently makes her views known. It paints a picture of the mood in the room.
We, as a people, have always hunted. And it is the very hunters that some dislike that have maintained the populations of wildlife and habitat long before the departments of fish and game. If we don't thin the herds then the population of predators will increase to do it for the ecosystem. Frankly, I would rather have supervised hunts in my neighborhood then have to deal with an ever growing population of mountain lions.
I’m ashamed of myself for missing that meeting. If the Antis were becoming cruel to children, however, it may be a good thing I wasn’t there.
Yes" justchillout" - I also wonder why todays article did not mentioned how the children were treated at the meeting????
Who voted nay at the meeting?
Fact—there are NO CHP statistics on deer-auto collisions. Even if there were, DFG biologist admits killing deer won’t decrease accidents (deer cross roads, will rebound, etc.). Non lethal methods, lowering speed limits, should be tried before increasing kill quotas. If you can’t stop a vehicle for whatever is in roadway (Vehicle Code 22350) you are guilty of unsafe speed.
Fact—the kid who spoke, the pawn, didn’t have a clue as to what he was saying. Some adult told him to get up there with such false statement that someone in the back (probably a hunter) snickered. But people love to point the finger at the anti’s. The kid wasn’t even aware of it until the Chair interrupted him and told the audience to hear him out. It was a non event until the Chair made a big deal of it—most likely staged, planned ahead of time so that the ill-informed Bubbas could make hay. Great strategy to take people off the subject.
Fact—the sheriff was NOT there for the antis, but for the Bubbas—the hot heads such as the commenters here.
Fact—this is all about SHARE program and money to big landowners. If you own 100 to 500 acres, as Uhler’s appointee said, you apply. The pay can be $30 per acre—$3,000 to $15,000. Money and ignorance are talking here.
Fact—Placer County has almost 400,000 acres of public land that is appropriate for hunting.
Fact—Hunters comprise less than 1% of the state’s population, yet they are making decisions about our wildlife.
Nor did anyone mention the "hunter" who called the Loomis Town Mayor a leftist when he told the Commission the Town DOES NOT SUPPORT a hunt and it won't happen there.
The child's statement was something to the effect 'the deer are sick'. The statement shocked several in the audience. The child appeared unphased until Commissioner Gary Flanagan interrupted him to lambaste the assembly - that's what upset the kid. Yet, Flanagan did NOTHING when a Town official was denigrated. Now that should paint a picture of the mood in the room a little more accurately than is portrayed here.
Furthermore, Flanagan continued his disparaging remarks directed towards the "pro wildlife" assembly by admonishing them for essentially putting their noses in his business. I've heard from five Loomis residents wanting to know who he was and what district he represents (their name plates were missing from the bench).
As far as the Sheriff's deputies being present, they are stationed at every Board of Supervisors meeting - so what's that point?
The AJ forgot to mention Rocky Rockholm is the BOS chair and I don't think he'll put it on the agenda - the Board will opt for the cowards way out of Uhler's mess. So much for the democratic process and being heard by your "representative".
Keep watching www.placerdeerhunt.com There's a whole lot more to come on this issue. I suspect in the end, the hunt will be overturned.
I had considered attending just to hear the differing points of view. Looks like it was a good meeting to miss. I hate unruly meetings and from the comments it looks like this was one of them.
jmsjms, the only two that I remember were Haswell and Freidig. To be honest, from the moment he opened his mouth I knew Haswell was going to vote against it. Besides being a newly appointed F & G Commissioner, this was his first meeting, he also works for Supervisor Montgomery. He tried his best to bring out Uhler's name but was not successful. Now, I have a terrible dislike for Uhler and I like Montgomery but I feel that his vote was politically motivated, it didn't matter any way.
And yes, the conduct of the antis was appalling, even the Loomis mayor stooped low during his comments. I guess politicians can't be expected to be any better than the common folk, I guess most of the time we can expect them to be worse.
P50, I did blow a fuse at the meeting, I wasn't going to comment but could not resist saying something about how the kids were treated. Other than that it was the typical drama, some guy even said the property values would plummet, I guess he has been living in a cave for the past two years and hadn't noticed that the bubble burst. For the most part their comment were laughable until they started on the kids.
In one of my other posts I called it a three ring circus with nothing but clown acts.
I moved to Auburn from Wisconsin a couple of years ago. I am not a deer hunter but, some of family members (Dad, both Grandpas, Uncles, Aunts, cousins, and married in family), their friends, and my friends are deer hunters (riffle and/or bow hunters). Hunting is as sacred as going to Church for WIisconsin deer hunters. Bow hunting season begins in Sept. and goes until gun season. The gun deer season is 9 days long during Thanksgiving week. After, is a muzzle loader season and then a late bow season that continues into January. Most deer hunters do not go out for the "cruel slaughter" of deer (i'm sure there a few that are unsportsman like). I feel, the majority of deer hunters hunt because they value tradition, good sportsmanship, being outdoors , socializing with friends and other hunters or getting away from life's hectics for solitude, and shooting a deer for food and sometimes for trophy bucks. Hunting (deer, bear, elk, etc.) and sports (football, vollyball, track, golf, etc.) don't create sportsmanship. Sportsmanship (good or bad) is created from mentors (parents, coaches, family members, friends, professionals, etc.). Hunters with good sportsmanship have learned (1) to respect other hunters in the area you are hunting, (2) practice,practice,practice at ranges to prevent wounding an animal,(3) respect for saftey of handeling a weapon (gun or bow), etc. I'm proud that my Grandpa (75) is mentoring my 12 yr old cousin to deer hunt, like he mentoredhis son and myself.
speedrecer, this was NOT a BOS meeting, they never have had Deputies in these meetings. No one called the Loomis Mayor a leftist, what meeting were you at?
You people come out without knowing what you are talking about and come up with some far out ideas.Pick out a copy of the hunting regulations is all explained there. Commissioner Flanagan lambasted the Assembly because they were heckling the child, I do prefer that word, why don't you tell the entire and true story.
Anyway, it was better than any soap opera I've ever watched, the pain you folks feel for the animals seemed almost real.
You obviously are not very involved in anything unless it's a matter dear to you.
And what hunt are you people talking about? Please tell me. The hunt in Zone D-4 is going to take place pretty soon. There are not going to be kids or adults shooting deer or anything else in your backyards. You people don't know what you're talking about yet keep flapping your jaws. Just come out and say it, you are anti hunting no matter where it's held, be truthful, that way you only have to memorize one story.
Have a great day.
Thank you, Rob Haswell, for dissenting.
Score one for the good guys. Maybe the tables are turning. You bay area people are ticked because you cant have something your way.
The hunters age 12-17 are not required to have any firing range or archery “hands on “ experience. Nor are their mentors. Only 10 hours of book training.
This hunt will not cut down on animal or human road fatalities until the proper signage is installed, roadside vegetation significantly reduced and speeders stopped.
The questionable field “necropsies” as purported by Mr. Stowers, will not result in significant data to adequately determine the etiology of any disease. I have to question where Mr. Stowers obtained his training and where he will obtain the manpower and $ to provide this alleged testing.
The people of Loomis and Granite Bay pleaded with educated legal, moral & safety issues but 4 of the F&G commissioners simply didn’t care & even expressed anger with the opposition.
What’s in your pocket commissioners?
banker - "We, as people, have always hunted." We've also lied, cheated, murdered, raped, destroyed..... I think I've made my case.
That old 'mountain lion' fear factor is getting really old.
loomisresident - you've fallen out of date. Rob does not work for Montgomery that would be a conflict of interest. Supervisor Holmes appointed Rob to the Commission so that blows your 'politically motivated' statement out the window. And, I thought I heard you urge the Commission to vote against the hunt, saying it wasn't safe - that was you at the podium no? So what gives, why are you talking out of both sides of your mouth here?
I heard no heckling - like I stated people were surprised. I too thought it wasn't appropriate (same as I thought the leftist comment wasn't appropriate - no matter what camp it came from). But in looking back when the young man made the statement 'the deer are sick' I recall furrowing my brow in 'knee jerk' fashion. There was no data during any of the presentation that supported that statement. It took people by surprise, and some snickers broke out.
betsyboo - well said. There's simply no reason for this hunt. It's Uhler's office stepping way out of line and now trying to backpedal. There have been several statements out of his office that were less than factual. The last one was his office telling constituents the F&G Commission wouldn't be taking a vote on the matter. I have to wonder is this Uhler or his office boy who's power drunk?
To Banker:" if you can't take the wildlife, get out of the country." Moving to the country and complaining about the wildlife is like swimming in the sea and complaining about the seaweed.
I attended the meeting and heard both sides. I am now convinced: this hunt is not about wildlife management, it is about the good old boys having their way, perhaps lining their pockets and sadly, not caring about their own neighbors. Bottom line: Greed and Power. These are the very elements that put our country in the financial mess it is in right now.
Way to go 4 F&G Commissioners...nice to know you care about the people you were elected to represent. And nice to know you hold the opinions of the other three commissioners in such high regard.
I will solve this dispute once and for all. To all posters above and those that follow: rent (or try to find) a copy of the movie
"(The) Stone Boy" starring Robert Duvall. After viewing this film, I challenge anyone to approve this slaughtering of deer.
Dear Loomis Res, try to get your facts straight, it wasn't Bambi that was slaughterd, it was the mother. Helps to be accurate.
Great. Just what we've expected. Twelve-year old, inexperienced, mentally retarded, cammo clad Rambo wanna-bes with belt-fed automatic weapons. They'll be trespassing through our yards, shooting at our cats, dogs, grandparents and anything else that crawls, runs or creeps in the open.
Don't let lies and misinformation affect your thinking. This is all a scam perpetrated by Kirk Uhler and the auto insurance industry to eliminate most of the state's rural wildlife population. That way, the insurers won't have to pay for any more dented fenders or cracked windshields caused by monster truck maniacs attempting to run over anything with four legs crossing the road.
"the majority of deer hunters hunt because they value tradition, good sportsmanship..." and watching large mammals suffering their death throes. Sportsmanship? If you really want to be sporting, try chasing down and goring a deer to death with a set of hand-held antlers. THAT would be sporting.
Boy ate you guys out of step. What I meant to say, but I wasn't prepared like you guys was that there was no hunt in any of our neighborhoods, there simply is not allowed under the DFG rules. You are correct, Jim Holmes appointed Your friend Rob to the Comission, however he does work for Supervisor Montgomery, she has been criticized for hiring her campaign manager. But that's neither here nor there. Fact of the matter is that his vote and his whole deportment throughout the hearing was purely political. Believe me when I tell you that you don't dislike Uhler more than I do, just read some of my posts in regards to him. I never heard anyone call the Mayor leftist and I called another person that was at the meeting and he didn't either. Yes there was heckling and speaker after speaker referred to the children in a very derogatory manner. Once again, what hunt are you people referring to? Come out and say it.
Vicmaekey, the name Bambi was brought out by one of you people, I just went along so as not to confuse you more.
Jackson52, I'm glad that you run your life like a Hollywood movie, great way to make decisions. Try soap operas, you'll have fun.
And betsyboo, whose making money on this hunt, huh? who are the good old boys, they were all there saying what their wives told them to and they were all against the "hunt". Now please tell me, what hunt? Nobody is going to be hunting in Loomis or near my house which is outside the town limit.. Relax.
lr is prolific in spewing accusations, much of which are BS. Rob Haswell hasn’t worked for Jennifer Montgomery since June. No one (but him and a few sorry Kranz losers) has criticized her for hiring Haswell to help out temporarily anymore than they criticize Weygandt for hiring his best friend, or Jim hiring Ruth, or Uhler hiring Jagger. lr is peddling snot—it’s his credibility that’s shot.
Haswell was magnificent as a commissioner. I will vote for him in a heartbeat, should he ever run for public office again. He’s skillful, diplomatic, does his homework, and is intelligent, which is NOT what we can say about the two clowns: brown-noser, Flanagan and his little side kick, Gould.
Other than a few snickers at the outrageous statement of the kid (what bimbo coached him?), there was no “heckling” (people were genuinely shocked). A few desperate pro-hunters latched on to it like drowning rats. I’m beginning to think, as another comment suggests, it may have all been a conspiratorial set up, esp being blown so out of proportion now.
I was in the audience and I DID hear the “leftist” pot shot from the audience to the Loomis Mayor. Wouldn’t expect the hot heads with selective hearing, or Chair Daniels, to acknowledge it.
Betsyboo, I agree it’s all about money, but it’s the SHARE program that’s the pot of gold—landowners get $30 per acre, plus fees for a short hunt season. Just do the math. That plus all liability will be picked up by us …
I dare loomisresident, and all the other kill proponents, to actually sit down and watch the tape of the meeting. You desperately want to think the opposition heckled that boy (who clearly doesn't have the mental capacity to be wielding guns) but only in your head. Watch the tape. The boy made a laughable statement, that deer were starving, and someone laughed. That's not heckling. Watch the tape. You'll see a bunch of yahoos, including one guy who seemed downright drunk, making fools of themselves. No facts, only "We want to hunt". You made our case for us. We ran rings around you intellectually, and I think it scared you. Hunters tend to be less educated and intelligent, and that was on full display.
BTW: For those who missed this golden opportunity to see your Commissioners at work:
The F&G Commission was treated with respect and courtesy by both sides, young and old. Two of the Commissioners, in my opinion, displayed anger, bias, and were just plain rude to the people they did not agree with. They appeared to be “loaded for bear” and when the opportunity came their way, they did, in fact: explode.
It was unfortunate the young speaker got caught in the cross fire of a certain commissioner who just couldn’t hold his load any longer. The young man lost his train of thought but still finished never the less.
The meeting did provide a wonderful public speaking experience for our youth. To address a board and audience is not easy for any speaker and audience reaction is always a concern. The young speakers stepped up to the plate and expressed, to the best of their ability, their opinions.
Maybe next time, our illustrious Commissioner can hold his anger long enough for our youth to finish their oratories.
Speedracer: The mountain lion issue is real. We had one this week on our street in downtown Auburn.
Theodore Roosevelt is considered by many to be the nation's first Conservation President. He was a hunter and sportsman as well as being a brilliant man. "Hunters tend to be less educated and intelligent".
I'm not a hunter, but I know many people that are. Most of them have more regard for the real outdoors and conservation then those that oppose hunting.
For those that think the speed limit is the problem, you needed to be on I80 going toward Auburn last Saturday when a deer leaped onto the highway in front of a car that was going the speed limit or less. I thought it was terrible that the deer had to be killed in this manner, but I feel that the poor driver of the car will have this on their mind for a long, long time. I'm glad it wasn't me.
Why do people who are against the deer hunt try to use scare tacticts?It shows you don't know all the facts about your cause your fighting for.You just look even more stupid and uneducated for your cause.Don't let your emotions get you so pissed off you don't use common sense.The flyer mailed out saying-WEAPON-TOTING KIDS TARGETING DOES AND FAWNS COULD SOON BE ROAMING OUR NEIGHBORHOODS! Be serious you know thats not true!Does will be hunted if allowed, not fawns!If you knew your facts,these kids can hunt in the areas now , they can only hunt forked horn bucks or higher.They can't go through downtown loomis or neighborhoods and hunt.They have to be so far from a home and so far from a road to hunt.Thats why that law is in place so peoples homes can't be hunted around!Then people say the deer are going to be slaughtered.Be serious They are only asking for 50 more tags.Talk about slaughtered,a mountain lion takes one deer a week on average.That's 52 deer a year in there living erea,that's equal to a small herd for one lion.Those numbers are a slaughter!The 50 extra tags are for a whole hunting zone,which is very huge area.Adding 8 new deer signs,be serious.I dont think deer can read on where to cross a road.The deer are going to cross a road where they want to.They will still cross right infront of new signs,common sense will tell you that.The people who sent the flyers in the mail are giving out the e-mails of the people who are for it.LETS SEE THERE E-MAILS.LETS PLAY FAIR
Here are some deer driving tips.
1. Drive slower in deer areas.
2. Never honk your horn at a deer on the side of the road. They are strangely attracted to the sound.
3. Never flash your headlights at a deer on the side of the road. They are strangely attracted to the light.
4. Slow down when you see a deer on the side of the road. They are strangely attracted to the side of your car.
I have had three deer commit suicide by car. I did not hit them they hit me. That's how I learned the rules above. Unfortunately the deer are persistent and keep trying to kill themselves.
Deer road kill used to be picked up by the county and used to feed prisoners at the juvenile hall.
Skeptic, I've never met a greater fear monger. Where can i get one of those belt feed automatic weapons all the kids seem to have? LOL
I doubt the hunters will be looking for the property line monuments as they cross properties to kill or finish off a wounded deer. This was even discussed at the meeting: what if a wounded deer crosses over to a property not participating in the hunt? It was stated: Permission must be obtained from the non-participant to trespass and finish the kill. In the meantime, non-participants are subjected to possibly having a wounded suffering deer on their property at the hands of a NEWBIE in the field. Plain and simple, this alleged teaching exercise should be done in non-residential designated hunting areas and only after weapon yielding persons, to include all ages, can show written proof of "hands on range" experience by licensed trained coach. This would accompany their 10 hour class room education certificate.
F&G: get responsible, get honest.
TO: Loomisresident. Apparently you never heard of the saying "art imitates life." Before you judge anyone's decision-making
capabilities, I suggest you watch the movie I mentioned. From your writing, it's apparent that YOU watch a lot of soap operas.
To Loomisresident: Wake up and smell the coffee. You may be drinking it as you dodge bullets if you live in the target area of Loomis. If you don't live in the proposed hunt area, count your lucky stars. If you want to know who the good old boys are, they stand behid the money, power and smoke screens. Behind every smoke screen there stands a dishonest politician abusing his/her power.
commonsenseworks, you're wrong. The hunt includes fawns. That's what antlerless means -does and fawns other than spotted. You sound like an idiot when you spew nonsense. And all caps is like yelling, which makes you look like even more of a moron. You proved my point about hunters being light in the brains dept.
It would appear that Skeptic’s “issues” are surfacing again. What a classy man he must be to call a child, “retarded.” Thanks, Loomis, for the information. BTW, I was at the first meeting. The Sheriff wasn’t at that meeting. They know who has a history of behaving badly. So, not much will be different from the regular season; they’ll just add more tags for a doe hunt, big deal.
This is not about "sport". It's about the art of "killing" defenseless animals, promoted to children and is to take place within obscure boundries which border residential areas,
loomisresident,
I've written a lengthy response to your claims. Here's Part 1:
With all due respect, I just want to clarify my dissenting vote at Wednesday night's Placer County Fish and Game Commission meeting. My vote was absolutely not politically motivated. In fact, I'd argue just the opposite. I couldn't support the hunt, as proposed, primarily because it didn't address the potential problem that Supervisor Uhler raised in the first place. Back in March, Supervisor Uhler's office raised concerns about a rise in vehicle/deer accidents in the Granite Bay/Loomis Basin area. Some basic anecdotal evidence was gathered and presented to the Commission, prior to my being appointed. The Committee directed staff to do more research and to try to gather science-based data as it related to herd population in the affected zone. Let me reiterate: Supervisor Uhler was concerned about vehicle/deer accidents. Wednesday night, we received a presentation from the State Fish and Game -- you were there, you saw the same presentation I did -- and Mr. Stowers essentially said, we don't have enough evidence to justify the hunt on a depredation basis, and our vehicle/deer accident data is incomplete, it is conflicting between agencies because of differing methodologies, and requires more study (speed, problem road areas, standardizing data collection methodolgy between agencies, etc.). Mr. Stowers essentially said we don't have the data.
loomis resident:
Part 2:
He also showed us a parcel map of the area, which showed a huge mix of residential/rural, almost
98% of it private land, which he said would make managing a "special hunt" incredibly challenging. Then, to my surprise, he went on to advocate for an expansion of
the D4 J17 hunt anyway from a 25-tag limit to a 75-tag limit and anterless only -- mind you, D4 zone is multi-county and covers tens of thousands of acres.
He also added that the success rate for J17 hunt kills is 14% (which, as one of my colleagues pointed out, would mean about 8 does total killed in the
affected area). He then said that to address the GB/Loomis issue, a pilot program of the SHARE initiative should be implemented along with the D4 J17
expansion. The SHARE program, which basically uses, I believe, State and Federal grant monies to subsidize willing private land owners to allow hunters on
their property, has been restricted to waterfowl and upland game in California. This would be the first-ever "big game" hunt through the SHARE program. Let
me reiterate: this hunt proposes a pilot program for a big-game hunt in a fairly densely populated urban/rural residential area.
loomis resident:
Part 3:
I dissented from this proposal because:
1) There was no scientific evidence presented that substantiated the claim that an over populated deer herd was THE reason for an increase in vehicle/deer accidents;
2) Even if we stipulated that there WERE such scientific evidence, this hunt, as proposed, does NOTHING to address that program. Eight kills will not in any way "cull the herd";
3) And lastly, I have serious concerns about rolling out a pilot program "big game" hunt in probably the most densely populated huntable area in California. Why not pilot the program on private land that is located in a little less populated area, so as to work the kinks out where there is more margin for error, before bringing it into an urban hunt sceniaro? (An aside: There were also absolutely NO details provided on how the SHARE program would be administered -- related to type of allowable firearm, notification to surrounding non-participating land owners, etc. So were essentially greenlighting a pilot program with absolutely no idea what it will eventually look like.)
loomisresident, I have found your comments on this website to be pretty insightful. But in this case, I think if you are looking for a political agenda on this vote, you ought to be looking at those who are pushing so hard for this hunt. This hunt is premature at best. In my view, the residents of Districts 3 and 4 deserve better information, especially as it relates to this SHARE pilot program.
(Not so) “commonsense” epitomizes the pro-kill crowd—lacking facts and intelligence. Kids (12 to 16) will be maiming, wounding, and killing fawns w/o spots, does, and young males with antlers < 3”—why is that so hard to comprehend? They cannot kill a buck, but that 18-year old “mentor” with them sure can.
In our Loomis community, there are plenty of stretches of 150 to 200 yards, so rifles can be legally fired. We only hope they don’t fire in our direction. THAT’s what we’re talking about—kids with lethal weapons figuring out distance before they fire? Not!
It’s not about “more hunting opportunities” because they’ve already got plenty. Tahoe Nat’l Forest alone is 800,000 acres (300,000 in Placer Co). Add BLM, state, and other public lands, and there is absolutely NO reason to have this kill in our rural res areas.
The pro-kill folks just want more opportunity to slaughter [“brutal, violent killing”] baby deer and their mothers. Little kids, pretending to be Davey Crockett wannabees, killing wildlife we admire. We don’t want them near our homes, our family, or our animals.
Road signage should slow anyone down, but if not, then the driver contributed to any collision.
The post card mailer had email addresses of public officials to contact. With democracy, we have a right and a duty to contact them. That’s why they give out their emails. If not-so commonsense wants to contact the ones who mailed it, just go to the …
...website and email them. www.placerdeerhunt.com
Rob Haswell, with his comments here, shows what an asset he is to the commission. He and Freitag were articulate, factual, and showed that they actually listened to the truth. There is no evidence to support this proposal. It merely serves to appease hunters, who, everyone should be clearly reminded, make up .08% of California's population. For those who can't do simple math, that's less than 1%. Such a miniscule minority has far more power than it has any right to. They whine about paying for DFG, but have made no effort to share that power by instituting fees for hiking, biking, photography, or taxes on equipment like cameras, bikes, etc. Many of us would gladly pay to play in DFG, but hunters will cling to power until they're extinct. It's wrong and must change, or ridiculous hunts like this will continue to go on.
Freespeachfan: nice summation of the facts and certainly a reality check for all.
The comments & testimonials at the meeting and on this site speak for themselves:
This hunt is intensely controversial.
This issue will negatively impact a multitude of Loomis, Granite Bay homeowners:
In physical safety, emotional well-being, pocket book, and home resale value. These are homeowners with principal who value their land, the wildlife who of "this land" and they value quality of life.
This issue has no supporting documentation and that which was presented at the meeting was sketchy, incomplete and admittedly studies just not done.
The fact that this issue could even have gone to vote is, appalling, unjustified, undemocratic, given the circumstances and disheartening.
Ron Haswell and Kari Firedig did take time to weigh all the facts without emotion and cast their votes without bias. They showed grace, dignity and justice to the people, the law and the land.
This is not over. The people deserve fair treatment and will continue fight for their rights.
Hay lets let the Jr. hunters hunt Phillip and Nancy Garrido, Its a win win, less tax dollars than putting them in jail and who cares if they get wounded and suffer.
Rob Haswell, I was not going to post anymore on this subject because it's becoming too charged. Thank you for your explanation and by no means do I endorse anything Supervisor Uhler does. In the first meeting I did address the Commission and my personal thought was that the complaint about car/ deer collisions was bogus, my first thought was that some well funded vintners had complained about deer having a feast at some of the vineyards in Granite Bay/ Loomis. It is no secret that a couple of the vineyards have been trying and have been quite successful in nearly devastating a horse boarding business that has been around for many years. At that time I opposed the hunt due to safety concerns. We had a show horse, very successful and expensive shot to death on our property by some idiot that moved into the area and found out that shooting is legal in the unincorporated areas of Placer County, regardless of lot size. Since we could not find the bullet the Sheriff was powerless to do anything. I met with Harriet White and spoke to her about the problem, she presented a resolution to the board to stop the shooting unless the property met a certain criteria, it did not pass and it died.
If you look at California's hunting regulations you will find that there are not many, if any properties in the Granite Bay/ Loomis area that meet the criteria for discharging any weapon so we will not have a bunch of kids or adults running around shooting. Continued
Hunting is o.k - I suggest people research what is and has happened in Pennsylvania with over population of deer, here are a couple excerps from what happens when deer population gets out of control: (This is from a PA Landscaping & Nursery Assoc. Article) "Deer have also become the scourge of Pennsylvania agriculture, ravaging food and forage crops at losses up to 40% in some areas, destroying valuable trees in commercial nurseries at losses in the millions each year and devastating home gardens and landscaping to the point where homeowners have given up replacing deer-eaten plants. The damage caused by deer browsing in Pennsylvania is in the tens of millions of dollars a year."
" So dense are the deer populations in our urban and suburban areas in Pennsylvania that the federal Centers for Disease Control has identified the Philadelphia area as “high risk” for human exposure to Lyme disease."
" In addition, the lack of natural predators and reduced hunting pressure in and around suburban and agricultural areas have allowed the deer herd to grow virtually unchecked."
I have never killed a deer in my life, but populations need to be controlled - in some areas it has gotten so bad that there are much more uncomfortable methods used to address deer overpopulation. Hunting is not a dirty word, it is a fundamental right and quite appropriate way to approach this problem before it gets worse.
Haswell, Part 2- Shooting indiscriminately and if someone does, a simple call to the Sheriff will stop it.
As far as my comment about your vote being politically motivated I think you can understand why I said it. When you introduced yourself you tried to get Uhler's name mentioned, the Secretary even said that no name would be mentioned. Now, let me qualify my statement. Uhler is a snake, just read my posts on every news or letter that refers to him. Personally I was incensed when he went on those now famous 8 minutes of attacking Supervisor Montgomery who by the way, I hold in high esteem. I was incensed that the BOS head man, Sup Rockholm did not stop him in his tracks, but then we know the dear Supervisor lacks a lot of common sense himself, I was also surprised that Supervisor Holmes who I hold in high esteem dis not intercede to stop what in my opinion was a childish display that attempted to divert the eyes that are on Supervisor Uhler, watching every move he makes. So, my comment was just an observation and not condemnation.
The Hunt that everyone seems to be referring to is really nothing. The regular Zone D-4 will take place and the proposal to increase the antler less tags from 25 to 75 will not have a significant effect of the so called deer "overpopulation" of the GB/ Loomis area, those tags will be for the entire D-4 Zone that encompasses six counties. I am a hunter although I haven't hunted for ten years or so, in no way I will participate on any hunt …
Rob Haswell- Part 3- If you remember my comments the only reason I chose to speak at the meeting was because of the way children were referred to by quite a few adults that apparently will stoop as low as needed to get their way. When some one says this hunt is bogus they are correct. Having lived in this area for a very long time and having a great view of Auburn Folsom Rd. I can tell you that the increase has been in people, cars and the speed at which they travel on Auburn Folsom, King Rd., Sierra College, 193, etc. Just see how many fatalities not involving collisions with any type of animal have occurred in the last 15 years compared to the previous 15. The demographics have changed in Placer County, we have what I like to call the new face of Placer County, those that move to the country and bring the city way of life and want everyone to adapt to them. You want to take life in your hands? walk around the Raley's parking lot, some cell phone toting, SUV driving soccer mom will be happy to flatten you to get that choice parking space. Trust me, you are safer driving on A-F rd. or sitting on your deck while the hunters stalked the deer on the bogus hunt.
We get all kind of critters as visitors and unlike some of our newbie neighbors we really enjoy watching them, specially the deer when they wait until we leave after feeding the horses and they jump the fence and join them for a nice alfalfa breakfast or dinner, we have had one spike buck a while ago come up on the deck.
Rob Haswell, Part 4- In summation, I was not going to post any more on this subject, I don't like drama nor the tactics used which unfortunately I allowed myself to stoop down to the level of some posters. I am personally neutral on this so called hunt which will be no different than all the hunts we've had in prior years or will have in future years. If you haven't done so already, please do yourself a favor and pick up and read the California Hunting regulations, it is too easy to become embroiled in topics of this nature which seem to bring out a lot of personal sentiment and personal attacks.
This will be my last post on this subject, if you would like to talk to me more, just post a number or email address and I'll be more than happy to call you, meet with you or whatever you deem best.
Last but not least I will once more reiterate that my comment on the political nature was not meant as an insult, it is probably something that I would have done myself had I been in your shoes and someone that I'm close to had been verbally berated by one of the most controversial Supervisors ever to serve Placer County.
Now, this is discourse that I enjoy having, not the childish name calling that seems to permeate any topic in our lives, I guess civility is pretty much defunct as shown by this topic, health care and just about every controversial issue of our times.
Have a great weekend
This statement is total BS: "This issue will negatively impact a multitude of Loomis, Granite Bay homeowners:" Check out the boundaries of area D-4. The only people that would hunt this area are the ones living there and they would not have a "tag" in the first place. If your neighbor does this it is time to have a meeting of the minds out behind the woodshed. http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/deer/docs/maps/d4.pdf
Fourgen: it was stated at the meeting, not every property owner in the proposed target area is going to participate in the hunt. This was a statement by DFG. Some of those not participating in the hunt, who live in the target area, stood in protest at the meeting stating valid reasons and expamles of how the hunt will impact them negatively. Were you in attendence of the meeting and were you listening to all presentations? But, I Thank you for the web site, it is very informational!
Since there have been contradictory opinions expressed on the behavior of those attending this meeting, I want to confirm the statements of those who heard someone yell "Lefty" at the mayor of Loomis; I distinctly heard this coming from behind where I was sitting. I heard no heckling or denigrating of youth - one small inappropriate snicker when someone was surprised by what a young man said. This was blown out of all proportion by the Commissioner. The meeting in general was not unruly; it was respectful of citizens' right to free speech in a public forum. The only comments that were disrespectful of the audience came from Commissioner Flanagan at the end, when he appeared to be angry that citizens came out to disagree with a proposal by a state agency. We need a review of this issue by the Board of Supervisors in a forum where the views of citizens of this county will be respected.
@loomisresident:
Childish remarks and the likes are tactics used by people who cannot debate or win without demonizing a side or lacking information on the subject other than personal or party bias, and contribute nothing to the "debate", which they turn into a petty argument. Dont stoop to their level
In short: anyone who resorts to these tactics should be ignored, or at the least keep up at your own level, intelligence and facts will always stand proud over all emotional and rash behavior.
@mmarin: You are a perfect example. You cannot resort to actually debating the topic without assuming and trying to slander a so-called "pro slaughter group", no one is skinning things alive or other actual brutal and violent killings. Think of cave people before you begin talking about violence and brutality. Please contribute something useful to the debate. Pointing a weapon at a target (the complete opposite of people) and range-finding is different than having someone standing near the target, invalidating that concern, you must only teach the MANDATORY safety and inspection rules, especially "always treat it as if its loaded, even if it isn't"
To all the antis of the debate:
Don't handout false brochures about true events, misinformation is the perfect way for everyone to exclude you from everything and invalidate you from all further discussions.
To TheLoomisDon: How many hours of range experience is required for hunters? The 10 hour safety course sounds excellent, however, nothing can replace actual shooting experience. And nothing is required of the youth or the mentors regarding actual shooting experience. It was mentioned at the meeting that the youth will be "taught" in the field. Have you seen how fast a scared or wounded deer can travel? I have and with properties in target area that may not be participating, this could cause a problem, as stated by Mr. Stowers.
Misinformation is one thing, NO information is yet another. There is no back up documentation to support the taking of 75 deer. Again, as stated by Mr. Stowers at the meeting. You speak of fauleshoods and misinformation, maybe you wern't listening to Mr. Stowers presentation...swiss cheese has less holes!
And P.S. to your last statement TheLoomisDon:
"To all the antis of the debate: Don't handout false brochures about true events, misinformation is the perfect way for everyone to exclude you from everything and invalidate you from all further discussions."
Curious: who is "everyone " and who will do the invalidating...sounds like someone is a tad omnipotent with this statement.
@betsyboo:
You seemed to slightly answer your own question to state that actual experience is required, typically on the first few times a safety person and master should be with the group, not letting anyone break a "line" whereas making one person in the line of fire, again further meaning that safety features should be on until live rounds are needed.
I am not concerned with going to certain speaking events, but there is always information as some posters have pointed out the specific information.
To your second post:
Think about those attending and will speak to others (tell one person they tell many, it continues) of which do not hold the same beliefs about spreading lies to stop something. It goes from there. As well as media coverage.
To The LoomisDon: Thank you for your reply. I am trying to understand the requirements & reasons behind the hunt.
"safety person and master should be with the group, not letting anyone break a "line" whereas making one person in the line of fire, again further meaning that safety features should be on until live rounds are needed."
Would you be so kind as to enlighten me, with 'layman' termonology so I/we can understand the ACTUAL requirements of the hunt as I posted in last post to you : 9-2-09 3:28pm?
You state "lies" being told, I have to wonder who is telling the "lies". The property owners who live in the target area and do not want to participate, the hunters who want to teach their children to hunt, The DFG who "claim they want to assess the etiology of the disease"?
Please enlighten me...I have seen ZERO valid research re: the increase of deer to be taken. Your opinion and response counts.