As much dislike as I have for Tom Miller who I think only cares about himself and his team of assistants I must side with him this time. A Wellness program that adds 5% to the salaries? Why does the taxpayer have to pay anyone to stay fit? That's for their own benefit. If measure F is used for raises is it also used for staffing? One of the Counties that is used by measure F is Sacramento, they are laying off over 200 employees, does that apply to Placer? Come on folks, get real, look around you and live reality. Why waste more taxpayer's money on another mediation since the other two did not bring about any results. Maybe binding arbitration is the answer.

Maybe binding arbitration is the answer LR. I think our deputies are a valuable resource and it seems like they are willing to make sacrifices. If you look at the past behavior of both sides I would give the benefit of the doubt to the deputies.

Good work Tom! Jobs aren't easy to come by today and until you find yourself there, we sometime take those jobs for granted. Wellness incentives are something we might give to children, not adults!! No one should get paid to take care of their health. Perhaps penalties for not taking care of it are in order. Perhaps the standards for officers should be raised...

Just remember folks... The DSA tried to get rid of Prop F twice. Both times they were voted down.

I'm curious.....considering Public Safety revenues finished the past year MILLIONS short of budget, how exactly is it again that the Sheriff was able to achieve "public safety savings"? Pretty easy to NOT spend (save) what you don't have I guess! Good Job! Reality is, the Sheriff received over $40 MILLION in General Fund revenues last year, double what they received in Public Safety revenues.....so the "public safety savings" are where again?

How about the deputies make a few salary concessions, just as all other county employees have done, and just as a number of other deputies from neighboring counties have also done. Take an MTO day like everyone else working for Placer County is doing...you know you'll get it all back with overtime, so what's the issue?

And by the way....why isn't staying in shape considered to be part of the JOB REQUIREMENT? Why do they get paid for that? In my world, if I fail to maintain the minimum standards required for the job I'm being paid to do, I'm fired!

Nobody should ever question the difficult and stressful nature of beign a Deputy Sheriff, nor should anyone ever question how well they are compensated for that job! Keep it in perspective...there are men and women in our Armed Forces placed in harms way each and every day that don't receive a THIRD of the compensation these Deputies receive.

Time to give back Placer DSA!!!!

How fickle we the public are. Several years ago when the economy was going gangbusters and everyone was prospering the members of the DSA were falling behind. So much so that they tried to get rid of prop f because it was hamstringing their chance to negotiate better raises to stay competitive with other agencies and be able to purchase a home in the same county they work in. It was endorsed by the Sheriff but was voted down. The wellness incentive was put forth to try and retain some of the deputies and keep them from going to other agencies, such as Roseville. Even with the incentive deputies were leaving in droves.

Now all of a sudden when the economy is not healthy people take shots at the DSA for doing what they've always done. Represent their membership well and retain quaility people. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Loomisresident and irritated. Do you not want your deputies fit? As far as job requirement on fitness I suggest you look at the job posting for deputy. Before commenting, do a bit of research. Despite what Miller says, the budget is done. He wants to take from those putting their lives at risk so he can build a financial war chest. He should be ashamed too.

irritated, I believe the article said the DSA has proposed concessions to the county. Did you not read that part perhaps? How can the deputies take MTOs? Do you want to pick the day where there are no cops working? It is my understanding that the CEO determined the deputies were among what he called "essential" employees and were not eligible to take MTOs. So instead of cutting their salary and giving them the day off like PPEO employees, the deputies get to have their salary cut and still work. How is that equitable?

As for a "wellness incentive", many organizations, both private and public, have used this practice to ensure employee health because the end result is savings due to lower workmens' comp costs. Again, healthier employees means lower workmen comps costs. I imagine the county saves money with this benefit.

Irritated - There isn't anymore "putting their lives at risk" for officers, in this area, than there is mothers driving their kids to school everyday. Yes, the criminal element is annoying but having worked in the court system for many years, I can tell you that the most dangerous conditions lie in Family Law when people are fighting each other for property and children. I think you watch too much television

Observer, I don't think you watch enough television. In the Journal the other day they reported a deputy was hit by a suspect in a car. That deputy was very lucky they were not killed. Regardless of where you live, peace officers put their lives on the line to protect their communities. If you don't understand that you don't have a clue what's going on. Perhaps you need to spend more time reading the paper.

Realist..."Again, healthier employees means lower workmen comps costs. I imagine the county saves money with this benefit."

Not sure you actually meant to say this.....actually workman comp deals with work place injuries that occur and about 99.9% of the time the claim happens because of the nice word called an accident or fraud...which really means "somebody who did something stupid and in WC no one is at fault"...no more and no less.

Officers and firemen have to stay in shape or they should lose their jobs...period...no incentives should be allowed except the employment they receive and yes physical tests by position... should be required bi-yearly just like a smog check.

harleyrider, come on, why pay someone to be fit. It it is part of the job, then it's the responsibility of the employee to ensure he meets the qualifications. If you would have said they give the 5% wellness benefit as a perk to keep Deputies from fleeing to other agencies I would have given you points for being truthful. Your story tells me you are less than that. Being fit should not only be a job requirement but it is advantageous to any individual.

Simply put, when the economy is good the taxpayers don't care much how their money is used, when times are lean, they, the taxpayers, have to tighten their belts and so do everyone else, specially those that get their paychecks from them.

You need to grow a little thicker skin, you take things too personal, not good for someone in Law Enforcement.

If you take the time to read my post you will see that the one thing I'm critical of is the wellness pay, I really think that is a rip- off, In a roundabout way I am critical of measure F, specially now when enforcing it may hurt the Deputies more than it helps them.

The only person I was critical of was and is Tom Miller, he's done nothing for Placer County except create a lot of animosity between employees and management and destroy morale while ensuring that his compensation and those of his "club" exceed moral confines in this day and age.

Perhaps the County should quit paying overtime for officers on patrol on Rollins Lake. I was out there recently and the officer that was on boat patrol had his wife and three kids on board. So he gets overtime and gets to spend time with his family. What about furlough days? Why do school resorce officers not have to take them? What about the employee who lives in Tahoe and works in Auburn and gets a county car to drive back and forth everday? Why is the IT unit have a manager from another county department, a supervisor and a senior to supervise 6 employees? What about some part time bailliff's that work 4 hours and their first hour is a lunch break? There are lots of ways the Sheriff's Department could save money, they just choose not to.

Loomisresident. Go back and read my post on the wellness. & I never stated I was in law enforcement. Guess if someone is pro public safety then they must be one and the same. Thanks for admitting your fickleness. You hit it right on the head. When times are good taxpayers don't care. Oh, by the way, when the deputies tried to rid prop f, they were doing it be because they were belt tightening. They couldn't afford a home. Just so I understand your view. When times are good, deputies should live lean and not be able to afford a home in the county they work, when times are bad, then let's take more. Sounds completely fair to me.

Harleyrider - Not fickle, but definitely taking a "shot" at the DSA for doing "what they've always done" - these are extraordinary times with substantially limited revenues....point taken, but perhaps it's time to buck the status quo! Ashamed? No! Do I want the deputies to be fit? Of course....but that's the point....staying fit is part of their job requirement...if they don't do it, they don't have a job...period!

Realist - Indeed I read the part where the article said the DSA had made "savings proposals"....lol...like "freezing wellness incentive pay, and suspending holiday pay, meal reimbursements and the on-duty workout and training program"...give me a break! Take a damn PAY CUT like everyone else in the County is doing!

Observer - You obviously missed my point! I watch too much TV...huh?

Please don't misunderstand my position on any of this....in general I agree that DSA members, all law enforcement individuals in fact, should be adequately compensated for the work they do; HOWEVER, when revenues are down as far as they are and the economy sucks as bad as it does right now, EVERYONE needs to give something back...EVERYONE!!

Realist - I am not a fan of mainstream media for very valid reasons. Do not delude yourself by thinking that I do not read...I am just very selective concerning my sources of information and how I disseminate that information. Human nature, being as it is, is clouded by our own defiency and the defiency of others who relay it. Your perception may be your biggest downfall. You (any one of us) either are a lover of Truth or one who hears only what one wants to hear.

Irritated - I did not mean to offend you; only making the point that the flood of erroneous information we receive from tv, newspapers and so forth tends to make us lazy, inluences us and deceives us. It shows in the comments we make. I totally agree with you that law enforcement should have to also bear the aftermath of our collective problems...just like everyone else. I personally do not believe that cops are keeping my neighborhood safe. I think that people are basically not criminals. I do want cops to come when I call for them. Sometimes they do their job and sometime they don't. It should never be that they don't...

Irritated. Stay calm. Your post reads like you need some anger control. Look up the physical requirements online before making an uninformed comment. The county has completed a budget. They want to take money from deputies to create a savings account. Just plain wrong. The dsa just wants fairness. The CEO is trying to piggyback on other counties' poor budget planning. Placer has a huge reserve fund. Look into it. Observer, if the job is so safe then why don't you pick up a gun and go drive a patrol car. Apparently, anyone can do the job since it's so safe.

The deputies of Placer County recieve "incentives" because the law, prop F, would not allow them to negotiate for wages that were more inline with surrounding agencies. They still are below what some agencies their size are making. The men and women of law enforcement risk their lives every time they go to work, just because they do not have a shootout or car chase every 5 minutes of the day in Placer County does not mean they are not in a dangerous job. I know several deputies in this county, not one of you sent them a get well card when they ended up in the hospital for thee injuries they got protecting you. You all should thank your God there are people like them out there. Maybe you should direct your anger to the Board of Sups for turning their back on you by paying inflated wages to the county managers instead of those who fight for you.

Just FYI the Wellness Incentive has nothing to do with being physically fit. It is an incentive that meets retirement requirements for meeting specific age specific routine medical battery tests and labs that a law endorcement office is paid an incentive for doing in their off duty time and turning in specific documentation to the department that they had done. It assures the county and the citizens that the officers meet or exceed quarterly, bi-annual, or annual tests based on their age to make sure that they are healthy. They may also be more susceptible to diseases and require more vaccines than the public due to the nature of their job and the people they come in contact with. The incentive is compensation for these vaccines which they may recieve on their own time from their own doctor. The wellness incentive has nothing to do with running, lifting weights, etc.

Also...if you read the comments from the deputies they offered concessions to the county and the county refused to accept them. You have to really owonder about what that is all about.....

Quick question, will Miller be increasing the inflated wages he and his buddies get with this new round of money savings? And which county sups wife got a huge paying job with the county?

HR...really... you stated "Oh, by the way, when the deputies tried to rid prop f, they were doing it be because they were belt tightening. They couldn't afford a home. " and.....Since when is it a job a guarantee that the wage earned in a job... will allow you or anyone else enough money to purchase a home? Clearly it is not our responsibility...the taxpaying citizens...to guarantee any public employee the right to purchase a home based on their employment.

If this was the case... then government wages earned would be much greater then they are now and at average 81k...per fed employee...something is way out of wack now. The entire housing boom was fraud...all of it... and it was promoted by the same government that increased government wages during the fraud.....figure this one out...and some very simple research shows the truths everywhere.

Based on your statement...everyone that has a government job should be able to buy a home.....many 38K average earners in Placer County would disagree......

harleyrider - We live in the Auburn area...not downtown Oakland. I did work in the system and as an analyst (one of many hats), know the stats, know the officers, know it from many angles. Our officers need better working conditions and education to bring our local agencies up to a higher standard, not more pay. I never said the job was easy but guns are not what makes a good officer. They need education and training in social justice, psychology and a few other things that will make them more in touch with people in this current environment. We can help them by understanding these things and providing it to them, holding them accountable to implement it and encouraging them when they perform it well. We also need to take better care of the children, our citizens and our economy. It is all tied together and wherever we fail in these areas they do effect the others. I would not want to be a cop these days because it can be very discouraging...

Obwan...I think HR's point about deputies buying a home in Placer County is that it's always better to live where you work...you buy into the community, you volunteer your time here, you take pride in your neighborhood, your kids go to school here, etc. It's ok if you don't live here and if you can't afford to live here that's ok too, but the goal of community oriented policing is to have the police and the community both be involved within one another. One of the ways to do that is to have the police live in the community they serve. It's by no means mandatory, but if you have law enforcement officers who want to live in the community they serve that's a GOOD thing.

Buster...could not agree more with your statement and yes it is a good thing to own a home.....yet it is really not my problem. Wages should be fair...and yes waste needs to be eliminated. We all know the stories where the budget process was and still is...if you don't use it all you won't get it next year. We have a massive money problem and it will not go away any time soon. Is it fair...no.. and then moving the CA budget from 54 billion up to 106 billion in ten years probably was not fair either. Like Loomis says when times are good party hardy when they are bad cut cut cut. If our leaders had just taken the time to evaluate the needs and paid attention to the all that money flowing....there would have been plenty of money in reserves for this dry spell.....the people in charge just didn't do their job. New buildings are sitting everywhere and the adage is the show must go on.....but the government only serves the private/public sector only....if there exists no money to run the government...then sadly the government... needs to stop operating. Maybe the next time someone jacks up their salary on purpose to reap a nice fatty retirement...someone will actually be watching what they are doing..... and then have the courage..... to say NO!

Harley...lol..I'm retired, how much "calmer" can I possibly be? And I apologize beforehand if my comments may come across as brash, but as much as I'm always being told to "check the facts" etc....many people who post in here are clearly either uninformed or have been misguided to believe things that simply are not true. A few examples:

Your post earlier today (Harley) said that the County has "completed a budget". That statement is 100% inaccurate! What the County HAS completed is a "Proposed Budget" that received initial approval from the Board back in May. What the County is working on now is the "Final Budget" that will be presented to the Board in the coming weeks. The purpose of a Final Budget is to make any required adjustments that may occur between the Proposed and Final Budget...adjustments like Public Safety revenues falling off the table because people simply aren't going out and spending money in our County at the level they used to.

A "huge reserve fund" that every citizen of Placer County should be happy the Board at least attempts to retain, although this year a large chunk of those reserves will be utilized to fund a wide range of on-going services. Next year?

Samthree - sorry, but you're wrong about Prop F....Prop F does exactly what you claim it prohibits. Fact - Prop F ensures that the salaries of Placer County Deputies are equal to the average salaries of the deputies in the 3 surrounding counties (ED, Sac, Nevada).

Irritated - Wasn't the three county rule always there? I remember court clerks wanting the same rule when I was on the bargaining unit for the courts 5-6 years ago

Observer. You say education and training are the keys to retaining officers? How do you plan to attract them if a neighboring agency is willing to pay more? I'll vote for you if you can figure THAT one out. Obewan, it is not your resposibility to have us purchase homes, I should have been more clear. I was trying to convey that deputies were leaving the county for better paying agencies and it seemed wasteful to train them up only to have them use that training at another agency. Buster, thank you for helping get my point across. I'd rather have deputies with a vested interest in crime prevention in the community vs just looking at it as a job. Observer, who said anything about Oakland? Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to be a deputy or is that an assumption? Where do you get your facts? If you were in the bargaining unit with the courts, did you bargain for Mendes? Is so I'm sure the dsa would love to hire you.

Harleyrider, for not being in L:aw Enforcement you sure appear to know a lot and have inside information, you also use the word we a lot. I don't really care if you are LE or not. I'm not against LE by any means, just check my other posts regarding the CHP in the last few days. You do try to spin things and put words in people's mouths, perhaps is the Harley influence, a lot of those that ride them think they are 1%rs, you know the bad azz attitude. Hopefully you are not in LE, you seem to have thin skin and a very pompous attitude. Nothing personal, just an observation.

BTW, what I meant when times are good taxpayers don't care is just that, When the money was flowing in who cared if the Deputies made more than Miller and Colwell, even the janitors deserve more than them but when times are lean that is not the right time to play little games trying to squeeze more money, specially when the rest of the County employees are forced to take furloughs. Comprende amigo? Peace.

Realist, your answe to my post baffles me. What is wrong with binding arbitration. If handled by the right arbiter ir is very effective. It is used successfully in the private sector. It has saved businesses and employees from a lot of strikes or in this case working without a contract for two or three years.

I don't see where arbitration would be a move against the Deputies. As far as any negotiation that involved Miller and/ or Colwel I would give the Boston Strangler the benefit of the doubt. The only thing that I oppose is the 5% wellness pay, I guess judging by a later post that it is not what most people posting here thought it was, no matter what, I'm opposed to paying anyone to stay healthy, that's just a perk to bypass the contract limitations.

Divide and conquer, not meaning to disrespect anyone here, but that is exactly what the C.E.O. is doing between the two bargaining units. The D.S.A. has asked for M.T.O.’s. The county is not willing to work with the union to implement them. This is salary and wage roll backs, look around. There is violence daily during sheriff responses, it’s just not printed. Becoming a deputy sheriff is a tenuous task. One must complete a four month academy, get hired by an agency (which includes a psychological, medical, fitness test and background investigation, which 50% fail). Then one must pass a four month intensive field training program. Lastly, one must complete an eighteen month probationary period. When that is said and done you get to work weekends, nights, holidays, miss birthdays and special events, try to resolve a lifetime of family problems in fifteen minutes, by willing to take a life in defense of another, open to law suits and public scrutiny, be vulnerable to passing traffic and drunk drivers, be subject to infectious diseases when dealing with those who will not share that with you and you are not allowed to ask, be subject to injuries (both physical and mental) and investigate and remove those who decide to take their own life by jumping off the Foresthill bridge or with a firearm. If you are going to complain why they are compensated then work a week in their boots. They carry those scars and memories with them for life. With this in mind they perform their jobs …

...with duty to the community to ensure this is a safe place to live, work and visit. Why are the salaries of the C.E.O. not being discussed or the recent pay raises given out to the B.O.S. staff members? How many cuts have they taken to their staff? Why do we need an assistant C.E.O.’s? The county employees need to stay together, they are not getting the full story, and Spin Doctor Miller is scratching out his latest rap album.

There is no doubt we need law enforcement to protect us but let's be real, a union, is a union, is a union and they always demand far more than they are worth in terms of production. Look at the auto industry unions and how over paid and under worked they have been. Consider the transportation industry as well. In the 1960's if one wanted to become a commercial transport operator (truck driver) he had to have a Teamster Union card, if he was not a member he would have to realize his dream in AG Transportation. another good example is Commercial Motor Coach operators who's heyday ended in the 1980's but the gov has stepped in and saved the day for them and each government entity has their own motor coach operations where they receive funds from the fed's to purchase very expensive motor coaches (Buses) and are able to drive around their city for eight hours or more a day with an empty bus with no revenue passengers. The unions believe the government owes them that much. All of the above mentioned areas of our economy are in bad condition and many are history except those that the government keeps running at a major lose of tax payers dollars. Today in the LTL freight industry for example there are only two major union carriers and a third previous non union company was acquired by UPS and forced to go union by check off cards and in this economy they are hurting in terms of loss of volume of freight while their major non union carrier Fed Ex is going great guns.

Loomisresident, you know a 1%er? Or is it just another one of your uninformed assumptions? I could care less if you like LE or not. But you display your lack of integrity and willingness to commit by your own admission of not caring about deputies when times are good. Why then do you even comment at all? When it is convenient? For opportunistic reasons? Oh, and FYI, harleys are expensive. Most who own them need responsible jobs. But then again, you know all. This is just a fun way to express an opinion. You seem to take it a bit too serious. Relax and enjoy. As far as your comments about thin skin & being pompous, take a look at yourself. All your posts reflect those very character deficiencies. I never made one comment about your personality shortcomings maybe we should all just agree with you and all will be good in your world.

BTW loomisresident, the deputies are not allowed furlough days. And they aren't asking for more $. They offered to make concessions. Not additions. Again. Your uninformed assumptions. Grinunbarret, do you propose privatizing police? Cuz the UAW was a union for workers in the private sector. I think private companies are there to make a profit. So if you privatize LE, then those inmates will be fed a few pieces of bread a day. Jobs will be lost and consolidated, resulting in unsafe conditions. So on and so on. Can you imagine where it will end up. No accountability and an eye for the bottom line. I'm sure no corruption would take place. Maybe incentives for more arrests. Maybe they could turn a misdemeanor into a felony and get a bonus.

The three county rule is there, I was talking about the other agencies in this county.

harley - It was always my understanding that Placer County officer pay was higher than El Dorado or Nevada County, which is the other two counties in formula. I can tell you quite clearly how dangerous it is because every criminal conviction that passed through the courts in Placer County for atleast 7 years, came across my desk. Most of our convictions come from drugs, DUIs, petty theft. Very few come from armed incidents, assault, riots...You can probably look these statistics up on the courts websitehttp://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/reference/3_stats.htm

We don't have real gang violence in our area although every Mexican or Black American in and around the Auburn area is viewed as "suspect (I am very sad to say).

As far as John Mendes goes - yes I worked for him in the early part of his "lordship". I was one of his right-hand people, and a very loyal friend and employee. Sadly, he showed me parts of him that completely took my confidence in him away. He is not what and who I thought he was. Perhaps he says the same thing about me. I have never been a party, nor would I be a party to what he went on to do and he knows it. He drove me out of the courts, right as he was starting his self-enriching payroll scheme and unfortuneately there was no one who would listen to me, at that time. Not even the judges who I contacted through the union. Although I contacted the State Attorney General's Office in case they wanted to talk to me, they have yet to respond. Go figure

Observer. You said it. CONVICTIONS. That does not equate to incidents. You amaze me. Did you really work for Placer County? you can't honestly think anyone would believe you on the race issue. I find you completely unbelievable and quite honestly, a complete liar if you are trying to make me believe our deputies only arrest mexicans and blacks. NEWS FLASH! Placer County is overwhelmingly Caucasian. The average stop is a 34 year old white male. There are stats through the sheriffs office to back it up. Your post, laced with dishonesty or at best uninformed, leads me to disbelieve everything you've written.

Observer, by the way. Drug arrests are inherently dangerous. So are DUI s. I notice you didn't mention domestic violence arrests. Why not? Do you also believe domestic violence responses are not a safety issue? You also said El Dorado deputies are paid less. Do you know this as fact? Or is it another....well, you know.

irritated - Prop F only sets the deputies' base salary at the average of the three other counties (Nevada, El Dorado, and Sac). It doesn't set total comp - i.e. it doesn't compare other incentives, such as detective pay, education, special assignment, night shift differential, or other benefits such as medical; it also doesn't set comparable take home pay. You also have to take into account that while Sacramento County is a much larger county than Placer, Nevada is substantially smaller than Placer County (by about 2/3s) and El Dorado is about 1/3 smaller than Placer (yet higher paid). While setting a base salary is helpful in getting comparable wages throughout the wages it is not the end-all-be-all for being a competitive agency in the area for retaining employees. Like Sheepdog says, by the time you put someone through a 6 mo. academy, a 6 month training program, train them in the jail, traing them at the range and get them outfitted with all their safety equipmenty the county has a rather hefty investment. It is unfortunate if you have employees who leave quickly after they receive their training to go elsewhere. The county needs to stay in a somewhat competitive salary range with their officers, while still being fiscally responsible to the taxpayers.

Harley - I will grant you that convictions are not the same as incidents. Call me what you want - I have been called many things I am not. I never said that cops only arrest minorities, but minorities are profiled in our county by law enforcement. I believe that may be due to the small town nature we still possess. It is legal to do this - don't you know that? I thought about including the domestic violence cases but what I saw was mostly minor violations and not the most serious ones of cases although any violence is unnacceptable.

harley - it is people with the attitude of unbelief, like you, that makes people like me unable to be heard. This is the very reason people like John Mendes get so far in their endeavors and why other people are so happy to help them do it...

Observer, you are not presenting the truth. You have omitted Kings Beach, which by the way was the center of a three agency mutual aid request that include the Washoe Co. Sheriff’s helicopter out of Reno to quell a riotous situation on the July 4th weekend. I guess you don’t realize we border Sacramento and that’s right, Roseville has no gang problem. When gang members are rolling they immediately stop when they come to the county line. There are numerous gang members that are booked in the jail and have been validated. We spend resources to train and educate officers and deputies on local gang trends, that include outlaw motorcycle gangs. O.K. they are not here either, but it’s odd to see them in Auburn, Loomis and Roseville. Officers and deputies had to walk the streets in formation to clear what was most certainly civil unrest on the July 4th weekend in the Tahoe resort community. All the points you bring up still result in violence if the person being arrested is not willing to walk themselves into handcuffs. You are not on the front lines working the beat. Don’t present yourself as one who is. Like I said, walk a week in their boots instead of sitting in your air conditioned or heated office. Be careful where you tread, because the last time I checked your own D.A. Investigators are part of the D.S.A.

Observer, where is your proof that minorities are profiled? Your story seems to be falling apart at the seems.

Sheepdog - I stand corrected on the Tahoe incident and yes, I remember an incident that was called a riot on Electric St a few years ago. Truely, I was not expecting the dissection of my statements down to minor detail. It is no mystery that cops tend to resent those who work in the courts but then that is no surprise either. Your threats to me re: "Be careful where you tread" make a chilling point as to the mentality of the very officers I criticize. I hope your commander takes notes...

Since it appears that only cops are responding, one would have to assume you are working the jail unit right now, so perhaps I should sign off and you should get back to the work you are paid to do...

Harley and Sheepdog... you guys are treading really close to bullying. I think it is you who aught to watch where you tread.... the Journal isn't messing around anymore when it comes to violations of the terms and conditions. As much as I don't like the censorship... I'm glad they're getting rid of the jerks.

loomis resident, I was in fact agreeing with you about the binding arbitration! LOL.

Observer and Saladin, get real. You two are being melodramatic. Sheepdog was not threatening you; that was a pathetic accusation. Observer, I was wondering why you had such an obvious bias against our cops. All your statements are based on emotion, not facts and circumstances. I surmise your position as a union boss for county employees played a factor. At least you have the decency to admit you couldn't do the job of a peace officer. Your experience and "inside knowledge" is laughable. You know how things work on the streets of our community, and you know what a cop's life is like in Placer County because you once looked at criminal case files for a living? OH MY @#$!!!! Are you serious? Your obvious bias and emotion discredits your opinion here.

I have great respect for our peace officers, firefighters, military personnel, ER docs, nurses, and all those that forgo personal financial enrichment to serve their fellow man in thankless hard jobs. I cannot walk in their shoes, but I can appreciate their burden and sacrifice. Observer, notice I didn't include "file reader" in the above job list.

Realist: lol! Who's melodramatic? Some of us have served this country overseas and we rally don't appreciate some smug little punk, such as yourself, telling me what you think "tough"is. You have no idea, kiddo.

Get off of Observer's back. Why the sacred cow of the police officers? They're not above criticism.

I hate how people say things here that they would never say face to face with another person. It's all so disrespectful. I'm outta here.

Saladin. Yours was the only threat/bullying i've seen. Observer, cops bate people working the courts? Really? What do you base it on. Saladin, your threat falls upon deaf ears.

No, harley... mine was mocking, not threatening. There's a difference, brother.

Best you could do was mock?

I am truly disappointed in the lack of support for our Placer County Deputies. Have you ever met a Placer County Deputy? Before you make a decision on what they should or should not get; I encourage you to seek out a Deputy and have a conversation with them. I am sure you would change your opinion. They are just normal people trying to take care of their families like everyone else. Do not be fooled by Miller's distractions; he has you focused in on a wellness incentive. Yes, I want my deputies to be in shape and yes they will do it with or without the incentive, but like others have stated it was a way to negotiate. Would you want Miller in charge of your lively hood? He failed to mention the raise he and his Board Members just received. He forgot to mention the unlimited funding he has approved in Tahoe for "Downtown Beautification Project." Are you going to tell me this is worth it, but not our Deputies. The DSA is willing to negotiate Miller is not. What about the 4 millions dollars he approved on a helicopter? If you want to be angry be angry about that. Sacramento County grounded their helicopter to save Deputies jobs. In addition, he's hired more Depuites. These men and women are not unreasonable; they are willing to give things up. How does he expect a small association to cover such a big shortage. I encourage you to go up and introduce yourself to Placer Deputy; I guarantee you will get a far more warm and friendly response then you would get from Tom Miller.

Saladin, Mocking huh? Show me a threatening post i've written. Do you know the diff? Because your post reads as a threat. Sounds like when I voice my opinion you take it as a threat. And then you turn around and demand I be careful because You thinknim borderline bullying. Sounds like you are the one doing the bullying.

Ok, Ok... I am sorry. I had a rough day yesterday and it put me in a bad mood. I could have said what I needed to say better than I did.

Forgive me.

Saladin, how did I say any of those things? My admiration for the sacrifice of public servants is universal, not specific. Where did you dig up that "tough" comment? I never said that. A little punk? I'm disappointed that you felt the need to be so visceral. I doubt seriously you would have said any of those things to my face. Then again maybe you would have. I think you earn the black teapot award today.

ouchthathurts, it's people like haradlyrider that cause some of your perceived lack of support. He manages to twist words around to suit his topic or leanings, he claims not to be law enforcement yet when it is a topic about the Sheriff's Department he's in the middle of the fray, if it is CHP or other LE agency, he ignores it, he must be a Union rep, that's an assumption made by the way he reacts.

And again, for clarification, I'm not opposed to the Deputies getting the best contract they can, what I am opposed to is little clauses here and there, like the wellness percentage that to me is a scam on the taxpayer's. Proposition F is a double edged sword, it will cut both ways, neither the County management or the DSA can pick and choose when they want it and when they don't. It really is pretty simple.

And I agree with whoever said that domestic disputes are dangerous, I lost a very good friend in 1978 when he answered a call of a domestic dispute and a 76 yo guy shot him with a .357 mag just below the vest, he did manage to kill his assailant.

Hey hardlyrider, yes, I've know and ridden with a few real 1%rs, not the new hardly riders with their tribal tattoos and attitude. Ride a hard tail accross the country and then you can say you're a harleyrider.

Vroom, vroom

ouchthathurts, my advice to anyone that may want to introduce themselves to Tom Miller is to go with right hand outstretched for the handshake while the left hand is placed firmly on their wallet.

Loomisresident. What words have I twisted? And why do you have a problem with me commenting on public safety? And why do you think riding a hardtail across the country makes you hard? I'd say not real smart. I'll ride the softtail and you can think I'm a wimp. But I will comment on what I want to comment on thank you very much.

hardlyrider, I could care less what you think, what you ride, who you ride with or who you work for, That last one may be a stretch, I'm retired and my time is my own, if you're working well that's a different story, specially if it is at taxpayers expense. Like last time, this is my last comment. Gorra go play now.

Have a great ride.

If my memory serves me correct, I believe the deputies received 5% compensation, perhaps mislabeled "wellness," in their last contract. They received it in exchange for making very large concessions in the areas of healthcare and a long time county policy which allowed for employees to stay on the books, prior to retiring, while they used the remaining balances of sick leave & vacation. Because of Prop F (the salary survey) the "wellness" was a way to augment such. It's just a title, not pay for being fit.

The BOS, CEO and "other" elected officials can afford to have 6 million in the bank for open space, give themselves large raises, continue to have tax payer provided vehicles, fund and maintain their own "pork" projects, purchase and maintain a 4 million $$ helicopter, continue to hire employees within the same departments where other employees are taking MTO days and continue funding business as usual on the backs their employees. Core values??

Someone called them "leaders." I disagree; their only managers, and poor at that! Leaders lead by example, put themselves in front and take care of their people. When the crisis hits, and a leader sees it effecting those they preach to care for, they step up and have the courage to stand by and support their people. Although you need not look to far west to see good examples of this, it is not happening in Placer County.

It appears Placer County is following Raum's lead; "never let a good crisis go to waste."

.. and another thing: It doesn't take a historian to know, crime, suicide and stress related events rise during economic downturns and fiscal crisis. In speaking to local law enforcement, fire and EMS personnel, such is currently the case here in PC. We need to keep our "sheepdogs" motivated, support them and maintain the high morale which "had been" good.

Some may say, paying them to do a job is good enough. I understand that perspective, but I don't believe it's solely about the money. It's about being lied to, coerced, unethical treatment and lack of integrity within our county government. It's about taking an oath to protect and serve, buying into core values, mission statements and taking pride in protecting and serving a community, while being rewarded with a slap in the face. When we need them, they are there and willing to risk their lives to protect us. Now, they need us.

One of the fundamental pillars of modern society, not to mention Mr. Maslow's hierarchy, is safety. It's imperative we maintain the high morale amongst public safety. Without the sheepdog, the sheep will go unprotected. Please leave our deputies, local police, fire, EMS, etc alone.

Glad you don't care loomisresident. Tired of your tired posts

...anyone who deals with the ills of society will be affected by it. Mothers, fathers, teachers, clerks, probation officers, priests, pastors, doctors, nurses, politicians, soldiers...the list goes on and on...

...everyone needs to give and receive compassion

If the contract is a bad deal, don't take it. There are about to be 70 or so trained and experienced ex-Sacramento county deputies who would probably jump at the chance to keep a badge regardless of the contract.

fuhrsg, that's quite simplistic, don't you think?

Sure it is, but now is not the time to be complaining about wages and benefits. Cops are being layed off state wide and that fact should be figured into any contract negotiations. Right now I would think they should consider themselves lucky just to be secure. I'm not knocking anyone. unfortunately, that's just the way it is right now.

fuhrsg- Tim Miller won't let the Sheriff's Dept hire anyone without a healthy dose of begging and groveling, trained or not. When the need for manpower is staring him in the face, his answer is still a resounding, "NO".

The Sheriff's Dept cut $8 million from their budget, as told to do by Miller and the Board of Supervisors. And yet, Miller is still out for more blood. He has said on more than one occasion that Sheriff's Department employees are overpaid.

Miller's objective has been achieved with this article. His aim was to create discourse. Lead the General Public down a trail of lies and half-truths. Miller vilifies the Sheriff's Dept with stories in the AJ about overtime, wellness incentives and contract negotiations, all the while, he and his "assistants" are stuffing their pockets, like no other.

Hey Miller. Why don't you de-gift the job to Uhler's wife and leave public safety alone.