Jan, The California Vehicle Code states that a vehicle travelling under the speed limit must pull over and allow vehicles to pass, if there are five or more vehicles behind you it is not an option, it must be done. Also, the double yellow lines mean no passing allowed, again, it is not an option although in this area it sure seems that way.

Once again, a combination of obeying the law, using common sense and displaying common courtesy should solve the problems, actual or perceived.

Jan, Thank you for your support of my original letter. It was unfortunate that the Auburn Journal Editorial staff edited out the facts included in my original letter. After the editing was done, it made me sound like a raving mad man just out to run down bicycles which is not the case.

I was put into a very un-safe position by a cyclist while I was towing a loaded livestock trailer, but those facts were deleted from the published letter. Bicyclists have every right to use our wonderful rural roads to ride on, but along with those rights they too have responsibilities! Below is a quote from the California Vehicle Codes that applies to your situation.

21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed

less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction

at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand

curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following

situations:

(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle

proceeding in the same direction.

(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a

private road or driveway.

(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but

not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles,

pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes)

that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge,

subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For …

Do I understand correctly that the event called Tour de Lincoln was held on county roads with no road closures, intersection monitors or any other form of traffic control? If that is the case then it is the organizers that should shoulder the blame, it was obviously poor judgement and planning on their part. Was this considered a race or just a tour of the area?

One of my pet peeves is along Auburn Folsom Rd on Wednesdays, it is trash pick up day and people put their trash cans on the bike lane, this forces cyclists to move on to the traffic lane. Of course the maneuver should only be done after ascertaining that there are no cars behind you, at least that's what I do. Thanks to the County for having trimmed all the branches protruding into the bike lanes, that was another danger faced by cyclists.

I am an avid cyclist, and I too get irritated at other riders that dont obey traffic laws. We do not have the right to impede traffic flow. My safety is more important than my rights, so I avoid roads like Wise because my likleyhood of getting hit go way up. If the road I am riding on doesnt have a shoulder I find a different route. Fellow riders, please be car friendly and allow them to pass whenever possible, it will make life easier on those of us who do.

Loomis, There were no road closures that I was aware of furthermore, they had multiple routes that varied in difficulty. The cyclists were going in both directions on Wise Road three and four wide in some cases. It seemed as if there were hundreds of them and they were everywhere. They blocked the Ophir Road Park N Ride entirely to vehicles, blocked intersections, and as I understand there was at least one serious accident at Ayres-Holmes and Wise Rd.

"Once again, cyclists have the right to use our roadways as much as anyone but they also have the responsibility to obey the laws of the road." I personally know some very resposible riders, but I have personally witnessed many that are the opposite.

I suggest that we organize a Critical Manners Ride for the avid cyclists. Please don't confuse Critical Manners Rides with Critical Mass Rides. While Critical Mass Rides block up intersections and make traffic a big mess by promoting lawlessness and unsafe cyclist conduct, Critical Manners Rides promote civility and law abiding bicycle use. All Critical Manners riders must obey every traffic law, and follow safety procedures, like stopping at all red lights and stop signs, using hand arm signals to turn, etc.. I would also include an educational seminar prior to the ride promoting bicycle law and safety practices. I really feel that this would go a long way in changing the attitudes of the public. I will help organize and promote it if we can get others to help organize.

News flash: automobiles do not follow the rules of the road. Let's ban cars from roads where motorists don't obey the laws, it's unsafe. The argument sound ridiculous when the terms are simply switched-- doesn't it? That's because it's a ridiculous suggestion whatever the mode of transportation.

Ms. Demello's anecdote doesn't mention anyone tapping their horn from fifty or so yards behind the cyclists. They probably didn't know the cars were there or they would likely have moved over when it was safe. However, I agree with raiderdave. Many unprofessional cyclists ignore almost as many rules of the road as do cars. But I don't consider Placer's rural roads unsafe. The unsafe roads are in the urban areas. What's needed along Wise road and other rural roads is construction or striping of bike lanes.

It's easy for Ms. Demello and Chaddock to complain here, but I'll bet they've spent zero effort or money advocating for their fantasy law to close roads for cyclists, pedestrians, equestrians, and everyone except motorists. Wait, there are such roads, called "freeways" and I urge motorists that don't want to get along with cyclists to use them.

Born Here,

You should organize your Critical Manners event, it sound like it could be fun. I suspect that if you spent more time riding a bicycle your attitude would change toward cyclists.

I invite all of you anti-cyclists to look at the statistics for Bicycle-auto collision deaths. I am not allowed to post links here anymore, but these stats are available on several websites, including National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and The Pedestrian and Bicycle Information Center. For those not wishing to read through the report here is a summary: In past auto vs bicycle collisions the automobile was almost always at fault.

Laughwithu, I feel that you are missing the point entirely here. No one says to ban bicycles from the roadways. All we ask is that cyclists obey the laws and perhaps extend a little courtesy. Your arguments infer "that cars don't obey the laws so why should I?" Thinking like that is along the lines of "So if your one of your cyclist friends rode off the Forresthill Bridge would you follow?" Now that is ludicrous!

Point of Fact: I always honk my horn a hundred yards back as a courtesy when I encounter a cyclist on a rural road. On many occasions I have had cyclists pull farther into the lane (closer to the center), or go two abreast intentionally, after I have extended them a courtesy. This kind of un-courteous behavior does not make me want to pick up and run with the flag for their cause.

To Joszef_Pelikan; My wife wants me to ride with her and my daughter as well. Personally, I like my cycle with the motor, but if it is means to an end I would pedal too. Will you help organize the Critical Manners Ride? Laughwithu, what about you will you help organize it?

Point of Fact: I sounded my horn for a couple of riders on Placer Hills Road last summer. The male rider was so irate because he states I startled him and could have caused him to crash that he followed me into the Meadow Vista Market and down an aisle to hurl a verbal barrage at me. His female co-rider eventually talked him into calming down and leaving. I honked only once and it was only after following for some time with no ability to pass with riders abreast in the middle of the lane. I am a cyclist too, I know to be some distance back when I hit my horn and to only hit it once so as not to sound beligerent. It is aggressive, inconsiderant behavior like this (that yes motor vehicle drivers exhibit too) that gives riders a bad name.

Sorry Born Here, you're trying to attribute argumentative points to me that I did not make. I illustrated the ridiculous proposition that any rural roads should be banned to all users except motorists. Go back and read my post again. There's no hint of your "cars don't obey the laws so why should I" invention. You fabricated that in your own mind, totally, making you unreasonable and unable to cooperate, therefore incapable of joining in some type of motorist/cyclist coalition. Unfortunately,this forum allows contributors to invent anecdotes at will.

The problem is that Ms. Demello and Mr. Chaddock wish to turn back the clock to a time when Wise Road and other rural Placer roads were far removed from cities. They aren't , because rampant urbanization has brought residents that enjoy cycling our rural roads and yes, some of them break traffic laws just like motorists. As urbanization continues the number of cyclists increases. Ms. Demello and Mr. Chaddock should have advocated against Lincoln, Rocklin, and Roseville urbanization 20 years ago, it's impossible trying stop the effects now. The best thing for Ms. Demello and Mr. Chaddock to do, for safety's sake, is move to an undeveloped area that doesn't have so many cyclists. Texas is calling, Mr. Chaddock, you'll be happier there.

InTheKnow, every anecdote about cyclists misbehavior can be met with an equal anecdote about motorists endangering cyclists' lives by misbehaving.

I am also a cyclist and must admitt that I am not happy with many riders who do not obey the rules of the road like riding two abreat and not stopping at stop lights and signs. However, in all my years of riding I have never seen a cyclist drive a car off the road, toss trash on automobiles and blast horns in the drivers ears. All of which I have experienced from drivers. Why do drivers think that the road are only made for them? It wasn't all that long ago we had to share the road with horse drawn wagons. The roads are pathways for all of us to use (Less the highway system that is made only for motorized traffic) if you don't have the ability to handle slower traffic then you don't have the right to drive a car on OUR roads.

Laughwithu,

The point is I have read no post in this thread that states "cyclists be banned from rural roads" nor have I written any! You sound like an incredibly educated person, as you can hurl insults in barbed statements with the best of them. Lucky for me I have big shoulders and can take it. By the way my family has farmed and ranched here for six generations "We're Not Going Anywhere!"

Banker,

Quite frankly, I have never seen a cyclist "drive a car off the road, toss trash on automobiles and blast horns..." I have however been forced into lanes of oncoming traffic by cyclists on multiple occassions. I couldn't agree with you more that the "roads are pathways for all of us to use" and we have to use it courteously together.

The complaints about the cyclist going to slow have all been on roads with speed limits that are 25 mph or less. What are you guys losing a minute, 30 seconds? InTheKnow probably took his or her frustration at work out on the bicyclists and blasted the horn and drove in a threatening manner. I doubt a biker would follow him/her into a market without good cause. As for Wise Road riding two abreast is a way to not allow traffic to pass when it shouldn't pass. A motorist that gets agitated by a few seconds delay needs professional help.

The speed limit is much higher on Wise road than 25 mph. I’m not anti-biker at all. I did explain my recent run-in with a biker. There are rude bikers and rude drivers on the road. I understand the point that Mr. Chaddok was attempting to make, and I agree with him. If it comes down to a collision, it’s the biker that will hurt much more than the auto, not that the driver of the auto would purposely run the cyclist down; he is just pointing out an obvious fact.

The Speed Limit on Wise Road is 40 MPH on the section in question. Patrick50 states that there are rude drivers and rude bikers... Amen to that brother. I am just as admantly opposed to rude drivers as I am cyclists. I say again the Speed Limit is 40 MPH. Rudness, arrogance, and self impotance, have taken over society. Courtesy, value, and morals are quickly becoming a way of the past.

Born here, what you have described is what I cal the changing face of Placer County. When we first moved into this area everyone had livestock, horses, cattle, sheep, you name it. During the boom years the new faces came in, they don't like any kind of livestock, gone are the pick ups, here are the BMW, M-B, Lexus, Infinities and the ever present SUVs. All drive too fast, pay no attention to their surroundings and show no courtesy or mercy for that matter. Gone are the days that the kids could ride their horses to town or the Log Store for an ice cream and the cars would slow down and give them wide berth, now they get as close as possible, honk their horn and even throw something at them.

It's not just cyclist, drivers or what have you, it is the prevailing idea that you are the only person that matters, damn the rest.

We used to say that we didn't have many neighbors so we took care of the ones we had. Now people buy acreage so they don't have to even show their face and say hello.

Let's all share the road.

Born_Here,

I would love to help organize a Critical Manners ride. I think promoting bicycle safety is a wonderful thing, and group rides are usually a lot of fun. If you are serious about doing this e-mail me kodadesign@gmail.com and we can talk logistics.

Have we all forgotten that automobiles are the majority and we as drivers, not riders, have paid our dues. i.e registartion, license fees, and so on. Bike riders want fair and equal treatment then they too should have to do pay their dues just like the auto drivers. And yes maybe we all need to slow down, but lets not forget why most of us drive. To get to work and take care of important things that need to be done in life.

oh yeah... not to mention car insurance. Do the bike riders have to have insurance in case someone wrecks because of their ignorance and or arrogance.

Born Here: Again you aren't reading. You said "no post in this thread states 'cyclists should be banned from rural roads" but Jan Demello stated EXACTLY that in her letter! "Riding bicycles on Wise Road should be prohibited." (Jan Demello's letter) READ BEFORE YOU TYPE!

By the way you have no prior claim of right. My family was documented to have been in Placer County before 1849. I was here first so you have to move away to make me happy (just kiddin there bud).

The point is that you seem discontended here because of urbanization, that's understandable but don't blame it or take it out on cyclists.

auburngirl44, as a matter of fact many if not most cyclists own and drive motor vehicles, are homeowners and are the same sort of tax paying, insurance paying citizens as everyone else. They are not second class sponging off the man citizens -- they are just like you and me and loomisresident and Born_Here and Joszef and so on.

That kind of flaw in logic could then be carried on down to joggers, walkers, or any non-motorized traveller -- it wouldn't be accurate of someone to see you walking or riding a bicycle and surmise that you just don't pay taxes or insurance, right.

Also, what any one person does in their travels in using a roadway is not more important than any other person and never supercedes the need for safety and following the law. The only exception would be medical rescue or law enforcement vehicles.

laughwithu... My family beat your's with the documented proof by two years...neener neener.. so you move out! I too am kidding as there are not many of the old families left. My bad she did say that... I missed that. I was just so happy to get a supporter of my viewpoint, I overlooked that part.

Really, I am not taking it out on cyclists in general. I am very un-happy with the rude and arrogant cyclists. You know the ones that when I show them a courtesy, they show me the finger. What happened during the Tour De Lincoln was unacceptable and it endangered me, my daughter, several cyclists, and a minvan full of kids. I would have to say that it is most likely the transplants or the transient cyclists, because most of the local cyclists (like my two neighbors) know and respect these roads. But the fact still remains, rudness and arrogance amongst cyclists and motorists has to go! So unfortunately the bad apples spoil the cider, if you will.

Heck, As a kid I used to ride my Schwinn to school at Ophir until I got hit by a pickup...ooops my bad. I should have gotten over like my folks told me.

9:12AM 07/23/09 2 bicyclists (man and a women) riding north on Grass Valley Highway ran the stop where I80 intersects with GV Highway. They did this while passing a set of doubles - concrete truck that was making the 90 degree turn onto Hwy 49, the driver was being cautious watching out to his side to avoid the inside lane traffic. The bike riders surprised him to the point of causing him to steering left as they entered his view on the passenger side of his truck - hi blew his horn and I don't blame him. They rode on and dropped off the side onto the frontage road that comes out at the Shell Station. It was obvious they didn't want to hear from the driver at the next intersection as the light was red. Common Sense seems to be missing with a large segment of bicycle riders.

Born Here and all: One of the problems is that people lump all cyclists together when in reality they are as diverse in their levels of courtesy, capabilities, and professionalism as motorists, probably more diverse. Yet just because some dumdum cyclist rides without using what's under their helmet or gives the finger to some driver honking at them, motorists attack different cyclists for other riders' acts.

It's as if a person riding their bicycle was swerved at and had trash thrown at them by a driver on one day, so two weeks later the cyclist got a pocketful of rocks and began dropping them on random cars from a freeway overpass. Why punish other drivers for something they didn't do? Why punish cyclists for something they didn't do, which BTW happens regularly. When's the last time a cyclist dropped rocks onto cars from an overpass? Never. When's the last time a cyclist was attacked while riding very carefully, safely, and within all bounds of the law and common sense? Probably today.

P.S. Born Here: Ok, you and I can both stay here until everybody else that came after us moves away first!

Born Here,

So are we organizing a Critical Manners event?

fourgen: go read the CHP traffic crash logs and post them here, you will find that, much to your surprise, cars cause devastating damage to lives and property multiple time on a daily basis. 45,000 people a year die in automobile crashes. Motorists constantly fail to use Common Sense, but the ramifications are much more serious than what you describe here, where a concrete truck driver had to blow his horn.

Cyclists are severely injured or even die because drivers don't follow common sense or obey traffic laws. Just ask the cyclist who was struck a few days back on Placer Hills Road by a driver that turned directly into his path, even though he was riding completely safely and within the law. His damage: severe injuries. Damage to the motorist: a few scratches on his shiny bumper. It was 100% the fault of the motorist, to the best of my knowledge.

You have a duty to take care of other road users. What if truckers had your attitude? They'd say "that puny pickup was in my way so I rammed my fully loaded semi into him. He's dead but and boy he had it commin for getting in my way."

laughwithu - In other words the riders were correct in running the light. Sweet Dreams to you to! Why is it OK to obey law only if you drive a motorized vehicle? Crash logs, look at them. How many vehicle miles are logged that render all those devestating loses? Get a life! Oh, and by the way help all those that ride bicycles by advising them to obey the law!

fourgen, WTF r u talking about? None of your last post makes sense. Have you been stealing grama's medicine again?

Jounal Comment Rule #1: Activate brain prior to engaging hands to keyboard.

laughwithu, I understood what he said. He was referring to miles driven per accident, a very common way of determining safety. It's just like what the NTSB uses to determine flight safety when they say "last year there were 4 gazillion passenger miles per fatal accident."

All road users need to exercise common sense, courtesy and obey the traffic laws. No point in name calling, that just makes matters worse and it closes minds to real discourse.

Perhaps the best example of using communication to improve a big problem was the talks between equestrians and mountain bike folks. At first it was a free for all, then cooler heads prevailed, civility took over and great progress has been achieved. Is it perfect? By no means but based on my personal experiences as both a mountain bike rider and an equestrian I would say that it is at least 98% better. there's always going to be that one person but that's life.

Well said loomisresident.

laugh, WTF r u talking about? None of your last post makes sense. Have you been stealing grama's medicine again? laugh, did you read my 1st post on the subject?

You are the one that blathered.

"Cyclists are severely injured or even die because drivers don't follow common sense or obey traffic laws." You seem to believe it is OK for the bicyclist to disobey laws, use no common sense and blame the consequences on a motor vehicle operator. I agree that there are individuals that hate cyclist and cyclists that hate motorists. I don't like people that avoid obeying the laws of the road. Common Sense seems to have died or is being heavily challenged.