I'm so glad that all these letters accounting encounters with bad cops are coming out. I too have seen their corruption in action.

They seem to forget that with responsibility comes... responsibility. Morals and ethics don't hurt either.

That's what happens when you hire a bunch of Barney Fife's. Hopefully they have only one bullet.

Is crime so low in Auburn that these officers always have to find something to do?

I have watched APD park in the red zones around starbucks on Elm. I have also watched them park in front of more than one dumpster while they ate lunch or breakfast preventing it from being picked up. I have also watched them park in deignated fire lanes. The laws are for all of us.

Ron: So just what was your problem or incident with the PD about. Letter really lacks a lot of information, facts or details of the circumstances.

I concur with Mitchell, a little more information would be useful.

I got pulled over once for having an old sticker on my license.

I had my license and insurance on the dash, hands on the wheel and a smile on my face when the officer arrived at the window.

He pointed out that my sticker was not up to date, took my information, ran a check and found that I had a valid registration, and let me go.

I guess it depends on the following;

a) Did you violate the law?

b) Did you ease the officer's job by being prepared?

c) Were you courteous?

Response to Mitchell. Its not a lack of information. Its just he doesnt want to repeat the samething story that alot of us have in common. I say carry a video camera even if its to only record the conversation. As for Yosimite_Sam that cop was either new or maybe it was his last day there before moving on to a more respectable department.

Yosemite Sam is a cop.

You guys are all amazing, as I sit and read most of you tear apart the police department regularly. I have been a resident of Rocklin and Auburn for the past 25 years and have always said "I sure am glad I live in a town where the police have nothing better to do than to pull over residents for speeding or running stop signs". If you don't like it, move to Sacramento County where the cops are so busy dealing with serious crimes, they will surely leave you alone.

I must say that I agree with Mitchell, Loomis_Rez and even y_s (OMG!). There are too many accusations with no facts or elaboration. It's hard to take words like fabricate, spin, perjure and corruption seriously like this because they come across as hollow name calling. And parking habits hardly make a case for those descriptions.

In years of driving in and around Auburn I have not had one single encounter - good or bad - with the APD. As a result, it's difficult to understand these kinds of allegations that come along with no substance or material facts.

govikes123: Actually, it's time fo the above mentioned "Barney Fifes" to move to Sacramento County--sounds like they need a bit more of a challenge in their "police work".

Because these officers do not have to deal with high crime areas on a regular basis, how does that make them "Barney Fifes"? All of you who are complaining about their "police work", what would you have them do? They are patrolling your city to ensure you live in a safe community. I know for certain, if you did not see them on the streets, you would be complaining about "where are they"? Again, go to Sac County and see if you ever see a cop when you need one. Unfortunately, police officers (like our military) are not appreciated until we actually need them.

I, for one, can handle myself - I'm not breaking any laws, speeding, using drugs, etc, - and I don't need a babysitter like some others seem to believe that they need. What would happen if we had no cops in Auburn? Not much. It's a pretty quiet community... and don't tell me it's because there are cops that stop folks from speeding and whatnot. It's quiet because it's small.

We could definitely do without the APD. They're just wannbe's who haven't made it to the Sheriffs Dept. yet.

Saladin-You are showing your true ignorance. The town IS quiet, because you have a police department that keeps it that way. You would be surprised by the amount of gang and drug activity the city of Auburn actually has. Without the police department, it would not stay the quiet community you enjoy. But please, make sure that when you do need an officer, DO NOT ask for help. Because you can handle it yourself.

Thank you, I will.

LOL Fine. An opinion is an opinion. I was just looking to see what was behind it. I had a simple question because I possess no preconceived notions about the APD. You are not required to elaborate. :-)

I guess there's too much mystery tied up in the APD... people *know* things and don't want to warn us locals about the actual circumstances so we can make our own decisions and make our voice heard if it's important enough. Can't do anything with "These guys can fabricate, spin and perjure themselves..." because it tells nothing.

By the way, Saladin, it was hard to read into your last comment and know if you are just being funny or you are a mean SOB. but just in case you misunderstood... I was *not* calling you a jerk (didn't even cross my mind). I was just trying to use an example... that is, if I was to call you (you = somebody/anybody) a jerk, i would normally expect for me to give a reason why i thought that way. Sorry if it came across as personal... wasn't my intention.

I'm not mean, Wrighter. I was just using what I perceived to be name calling back at you. I didn't mean it. Forgive me.

I just don't wish to say exactly what it is in regards to the APD. It would give too much information away. It's safe to say that there are good cops and bad cops... Auburn has both. I'm just one of those that feels the police should worry about bigger things than petty speeding tickets. Auburn has a huge methamphetamine problem, for example. I know that they know where the houses are. That trailer park off of Bell Rd. and 80 is full of tweekers... go get them.

I was a little over zealous earlier in my comment regarding not needing the police. What I meant to say is that I've never called the cops before and where I live... I can't forsee ever calling the cops in the future. They aren't necessary for MY survival. That's all.

Salidin, It's those "petty speeding tickets" that causes drivers to slow down so when a young girl gets hit crossing Hwy 49 she won't get creamed. There is a method to their perceived madness.

You want facts? Here they are. I was headed north on Nevada and stopped for the stop sign at Fulweiler/Blocker. The APD black cruiser was stopped to my left at the red light coming from the train depot. His light turned green and we proceeded through the intersection turning left onto Nevada. As soon as he got through the interestion he slowed to 5 to 7 MPH and waited for me. My light turned green and I crossed and proceeded behind him at about 20 feet. I didn't know what the guy was doing but there was a pedestrian on the right sidwalk and I thought he was checking him out. He pulled over to the side and stopped and I continued and turned left on Enterprise. He came after me and turned on his lights when I was across from the post office. I was driving my restored VW 70 red bug. He approached and and was getting my registration and insurance info from my glove box. When he got to my window I said, "what did I do wrong" and his response was "just give me your registration, driver's license and insurance socuments." I had everything out except my driver's license which he saw that I was working it out of my wallet insert. He took it and returned to his car. He came back and said, "your plates do not match your vehicle." I said they were the plates the DMV gave me when I ordered the special "TYPE I" plate. I said perhaps DMV caused a problem.

While it is true that a police officer may be "imaginative" when stating probable cause for a stop, some more than others, the great majority of police officers, APD and otherwise, play by the rules and do their best to do a good job. I appreciate the deterent effect police officers have, as well as their work in catching and prosecuting criminals, in small towns and large. When you are stopped, whether you believe the officer has a good reason or not, be polite and cooperative. It will make the encounter proceed much faster and more pleasant.

Thought I might share a funny story with you. When I was in law school in Salt Lake City, my roommate and I awoke early, around 4 a.m., to go duck hunting. We quietly loaded our gear, including two shotguns in my car. I then coasted out of the apartment complex so as not to awaken my neighbors. I drove about three blocks before being pulled over by four officers in 2 squad cars, with weapons drawn and pointed at us. I'm sure our long hair (oh for the days I could grow it) did not help matters.

When asked, I calmly and politely explained our actions. Then I was told that a neighbor had seen two strangers loading things in a car, then suspiciously coast down the driveway. The neighbor also reported that we were armed. It seems that there had been a few burglaries at the complex.

We had a good laugh and everyone quickly went on their way. I made more noise from then on.

Ron, sorry you were pulled over, but it sounds like he may have had probable cause to think you were in a stolen vehicle, or did I miss something?

(Continued) His response was, "that may be but you're the one I have stopped here and you have the problem." I said the DMV is just across the street can we go over there and get the matter resolved. He said, "I won't do that." I asked him since he didn't know the plates didn't match until he ran them, why he pulled me over. His response, "tailgating, you wait right here." When he returned, he went around to the front of the car, looked at the plate came back and asked, "where's the VIN on this thing." I pointed to it. He wrote me a ticket for, get this (x) No front plate, (2) Following too closely. I told him you set me up and waited for me to get that green light. He said, in that cop shout, "I did not. I never got within 20 feet of the ass end of his car and he knew it. My bug had 270 miles on a new engine and 200 miles on a complete new brake system, I would not have put that vehicle in danger. Im a white headed 74 year old male and retired and Im a careful driver. I dont know if he thought he had a high school kid at lunch, I was an old hippy (Im not) or perhaps he just doesnt like old cars. But this guy is a bad cop. He swore under oath as to the charges, said I was hesitant to give him my license and was arrogant. He signed that statement under oath also. You guys who think cops do no wrong, look up Officer Stanley Hamelin, hell make your day.

Lant: He didnt know the plates didnt match until after he pulled me over and ran the plates. I went to DMV to the matter squared away, and DMV said they goofed and should have issued me a new registration when I turned in the old plates and they gave me the new ones. They cleared up the matter in five minutes and didnt charge me a dime since I was registered correctly.

Lant: I know that youre an attorney, but I was a courtroom clerk for many years working juvenile traffice, superior and muncipal courts in Ventura County and Weld County, CO. I have witnessed cops on the stand swear and oath and lie better than a $5,000.00 a day expert witness. Cops are no different and any of us. However, they sure like the power they have, and its subject to abuse.

Sorry, Ron. Guess I should have waited for the rest of the story. It sounds like you were dealing with someone who used his "imagination" to justify a stop based on a hunch.

Ron - I know we know each other and I always have liked and respected you. I have to agree that I have seen police officers and expert witnesses, especially some defense medical experts and "biomechanical experts" spouting junk science, be untruthful on the stand. However, my experience has been, both as a prosecutor and a defense attorney (until about 14 years ago) that a relatively small percentage of officers lie on the stand. Most officers exercise their power appropriately.

Ronini;

So this whole situation that you are complaining about really was the fault of DMV in the first place. And you wrote in to complain about APD? Not condoning the actions of APD here, but like I stated in my first post. Information provided to us the readers could have made you look so not so much like a fool.

Mitchell,

The problem was not the DMV - the problem was that the cop set me up by driving 7 mph in a 25 mph zone and waiting for me to get through the intersection. Have you ever heard of entrapment? Perhaps the problems with the APD stems back to the chief. I dont recall and bad press when Nick Willick was chief.

Mitchell:

Sorry I appear to be a fool, however, if any law was broken it was by the cop. Its against the law to drive so slow as to impede traffic.

Like the copy said, in only the tone that an arrogant cop can use, You have a good day!"

Ron - Mitchell either did not read or did not understand all the comments. You made it very clear that the mistake made by the DMV did not cause you to be stopped. Your gripe is clearly with the questionable probable cause and attitude.

Thank you Lant, I thought perhaps I was loosing it.

I guess enough has been said on this subject.

I've lived in this area for 26+ years. On the whole I have been treated fairly by the PD, and they have done well by my kids too. The same thing with the Sheriff's Department, and the local CHP.

I have had one case of being pulled over for a questionable probable cause, but after some short questioning, I was on my way. I had another case of being pulled over for a broken tail light. The officer was polite but forceful in reminding me to get it fixed. Which I did a few days later.

There probably are a few bad apples in all locationsm but it does not reflect the whole IMHO/

The Auburn Police department is a very professional and competent organization. While any Police officer can make a mistake or have a bad day, it is far more common for Police officers to take abuse from the public than give it. All complaints of poor behavior on the part of our Police officers is fully investigated. Our Police officers work very hard to help keep Auburn the safe community it is. We have all heard the comments about officers waiting for patrons of drinking establishments but that is where DUI's come from. I have had to care for too many patients injured by drunk drivers. If you have a concern do not speed on a road that is posted at 25 mph or drink too much and drive. If you have a legitimate complaint please bring it forward to the proper authorities and I guarantee that it will be throughly investigated.

Dr Bill Kirby

Auburn City Council

home 8852124

flyingsurgeon210@yahoo.com

Dr Kirby,

I did speak with Lt Ruffcorn about this incident but declined to file a formal complaint. I'm afraid, just like the traffic referee, who is not going to believe the cop? It's a he said, he said situation. This guy had all the bells and whistles which he used and swore to on the trial by declaration. With no witness, the cop will always be taken as the gospel. Especially when the city, county and state need the revenue.

Ronini: So you did not have a front plate on your VW, that alone is a violation of the Vehicle code and you were following the APD cruiser right? Will not comment on the following to close ticket, but he was legit on the ticket for no front plate.. Got one myself a few years ago for the same thing. That alone is reason enough for them to make a stop. I know I fought it in court and lost.

Mitchell,

That's one of the points - yes, I did have a front plate on the vehicle. I paid extra for those plates and I know it's against the law not to have them on. He went to the front of the vehicle and looked at the plate and then wrote me a ticket for having no front plate.

That's justice?

I fought the ticket out by a trial by declaration. It was obvious that the traffic referee disgarded everything I said except that he did dismiss the front plate citation - one of my exhibits was a picture of the car with a date...it was listed for sale on the samba for sale.

Saladin, it's so easy to say you can handle yourself. Too bad you would never have to prove it. I think you are a lot of hot air. That's not atypical. I don't think any community in this country would be the same without peace officers. Apparently, you are ignorant enough to think so though.

Ronini, that's a very weak excuse. Maybe you didn't file the complaint because you knew it had no merit. You have lost your credibility with that statement. Show some moral courage if you think you were wronged and taken advantage of. That fact that you didn't speaks volumes.

Realist (you believe)

It may be a weak excuse however I had planned to file a complaint after the officer appeared in court and purjured himself. I had requested a court trial but then found out about the trial by declaration. I went for the declaration because I didn't want the officer to have to attend court on his day off and make overtime money - my way of punishing him. However, I was deflated by the court referee's order and decided that the best way out was to go to traffic school to take the violation off my record and negate insurance increases.

You can say what you want but it appears to me that you are always on the negative. That, my friend, says volumes about you.

You have a good day officer.

What? Another hapless cop-bigot complaining because the big bad po-po is picking on him? Say it isn't so. Not in the Journal!!!

Grow up, mope. What was your encounter for? What were you doing that you shouldn't have been doing?

Saladin, let me emphatically state...you have no idea what you're talking about. Go to Radio Shack and pick up a scanner. You are painfully naive if you believe Auburn is a quiet community.

It's obvious you are bigoted against specific groups of people. In this case, it's law enforcement officer. Hmm...what do you think about black people? What about black cops?

Another letter about APD... Does the department do performance reviews on their officers?? If so, how often?

MRex21 or Trex:

I don't have a problem with cops, just the ones that lie.

I was born in Auburn 50 some years ago. Learned to drive here and have managed to be stopped only twice in my life. Once years ago for speeding (which I was) and just a couple of years ago for expired registration. The officer asked why my registration was expired, I explained that my car wouldn't pass smog. He politely said I should go ahead and pay the registration and work on the smog issue later, then I would have proof of registration in case of another traffic stop for that same issue. I had no idea this was even an option. Bolth times I was treated with respect and in the second case the officer was also very helpful. I don't understand how some people can drive around a town for 40+ years and never have a problem, and others claim to be treated so unfairly.

Just my two cents. I have lived in this area for over 25 years. I have never had a bad experience or even a ticket in Placer County. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm a good driver, who knows for sure. I've had tickets in that time, one in Nevada County and the other in Ventura County, I deserved both.

Are there bad cops? Sure, but is every one of them bad, absolutely not.

If my lack of problems with the local police forces have been due to luck I hope the streak continues.

Now, let's enjoy Independence Day and remember, if you drink, don't drive, if you drink and drive and get caught please spare us the details.

A urologist caring for "too many patients injured by drunk drivers"??? How high could the number be?? I'm gonna have to think about that one for while......

Chucky Cheese:

I cover Urology for the trauma service at Sutter Roseville 8 days a month and kidneys and bladders get injured in complex pelvic fractures which are common in automobile accidents. Over 30 years I have seen my share.

Dr Bill Kirby

Auburn City Council

Lant, "...my experiencehas been, both as a prosecuter and defense attorney... that a relatively small percentage of officers lie on the stand." This is a bias' statement.

The few attorneys I know share the same opinion. They hate to have cops on the stand because they lie. Your Utah life experience and legal education must have clouded your perception of reality. How many people have you sent down the river both as prosecuter and defense attorney because you live in a fantasy world? How would you know if a cop is lying if you have a preconceived notion that they aren't?

Having no front plate is not considered a moving violation, it will get you stopped in many cases so that the officer can check you out but it has nothing to do with your insurance rates.

If there is a fine for this and not just a fixit ticket it can't be expensive enough to go to trial over.

I can say that the vast majority of law enforcement are good men and women, and I've never been treated poorly on the rare occasion of being pulled over. I feel the PCSO and the CHP are outstanding. However, there are some within the APD who I would not want pulling over members of my family or showing up at the scene if there was a problem. There is always a few in law enforcement who are jerks who should not have a badge and a gun and the authority that they do. Even their fellow officers don't like them. But, these individuals should not be used as an example of the rest of them, it is unfair.

That being said, I completely believe Ronini. It is important that we not 1. Ignore or disregard complaints about law enforcement, because while some people do not have legitimate complaints, one day it could be you, law abiding or not, who is on the other end of that officer who is abusing his/her power. 2. Support our law enforcement, who may just be the one thing in the way of us or the people we love being hurt by someone who is breaking the law and putting the public in danger. 3. Recognize that each case should be considered on an individual basis, and carte blanch condemnation or cheerleading of law enforcement does a disservice to both the officers and the public. I think we are pretty lucky with most of our officers and deputies, but there are a few who need to be dealt with and I'm not sure what the reason is that they haven't been.

I’ve lived here for 20 years and only been pulled over twice. The officer was very polite and even gave my daughter (four years old at the time) a little badge on one of the encounters and I explained the other recently. I’ve had worse experiences in Sacramento. Certainly, there may be a bad apple here or there, but the majority is excellent at what they do. Saladin, I’m in shock at your statement. I wonder if the young woman that had here teeth knocked out at the local bar recently would agree with you.

Patrick50: I am running a little behind in my comments but wanted to let you know I left you one on the 6-29-09 Opionions "Police Pull-over was wrong" Hopefully you'll see this and get a chance to read my comment to yours.

Saladin- Never say never. You made some pretty rash statements. Until you or a family member has been a victim of a crime or violent act, you cannot say that the police are not necessary for your survival. If something bad happens, who do you intend to call?

Saladin-Wow, you are one badass aren't you? I hate to tell you this, but EVERONE needs the police at one time or another.

Steelybob can confirm the truth in this (I tell this story every time someone says they don't need the police), I had a family member murdered here in Auburn, no drugs involved, she was not a criminal, just a little lady going to the store after Church (I kid you not). So don't try to tell me that "not much" happens in Auburn. What would happen if this was in your family? Would you grab your gun and go a huntin' for the perp? Thinking you can handle anything seems pretty arrogant.

Yes Salamander, I remember that tragic case very well. I hope you & your family have found peace.

Salamander:

I remember that tragic case as well. I too hope that you and your family have found at least something like peace, but I doubt it. You never can with the loss of a family member.

Chuxx,

how nice to hear from you again, not. Yup, my life experiences help form my opinions, biased as they may be. What makes you think I have a preconceived notion that police officers do not lie? I already agreed that some do. That makes me try to view everyone's testimony with an open mind and try to sort out what makes sense and what doesn't - no doubt a novel concept for you. I picture you as a man with one foot nailed to the floor. You run in a circle with your free foot, thinking you have gone a long way, but you have only moved in that small circle.

Have any of you griping about the PD taken the time to go in and file a complaint? If you have been so wronged, why not?

The travesties I keep seeing you complain about would surely warrant a complaint to the PD.

mccauley444: How do you know that Cheif Harris doesn't have a stack of complaints on her desk?

McCauley444, I wrote a letter to the department and sent it last week, regarding what my letter to the Journal was about. I am sure it is one of many sitting on Chief Harris' desk.

Salamander: I am sorry to hear about your family.

I said earlier that I've never NEEDED the police. Neither has anyone in my family... ever. Maybe that's weird, I don't know.

P.S. Your "what if's" don't move me. A meteorite could hit me in the head too.

Salamander: My parents, my sisters, and I have lived in rougher neighborhoods such as Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle, and Miami... never with any problem. There is way too much fear pumped into the American psyche.

I had a friend die while we were in the service but that doesn't mean that everyone in the service is going to die, does it? NO, it doesn't.

By the way... thanks for sounding like a complete a-hole when speaking to me... it really makes me want to see your side of things. Was I talking bad about you? No. Was I giving your workplace a hard time? No. Did I call myself a "bad-a$$"? No. Save yourself some trouble and ask me to clarify myself before you rush to make up my mind for me, would you?

Talk about arrogant.

Saladin: Salamander didn't come off sounding like that at all. If you went through what Salamnder's family did, you'd know that good police work is essential.

Saladin- We have frequently agreed on issues (especially religion), but law enforcement has always been a hot button topic for me as I see it is for you. The fear in MY psyche was not "pumped into" me, it has come from a total stranger who took away a beloved member of my family forever and before her time. Trust me when I tell you an experience like that will corrupt your faith in mankind.

I didn't mean to be so harsh, but you stated not much would happen in Auburn without cops. I disagree and was trying to explain that plenty happens in Auburn. The small size and quietness of our town does not in and of itself guarantee safety. And I worry whenever someone doesn't think they need the law. I envy you that, to date, you have not needed the police, but don't totally reject them when it is conceivable that there might be a day they could help you.(whew, that was a run on sentence!)

Anyway, if you reject law enforcement, and become the victim of a crime there are only two options for you, take the law into your own hands, or turn the other cheek. Neither option seems satisfactory.

Ok. I guess I came off too harsh. Excuse me.

Let's start over. I am sorry about your family and I do understand the need for the police when something tragic happens. I've never encountered that sort of situation myself and I suppose that I just can't fathom the situation you mention. I just get tired of hearing about the corruption in the police force and the same people defending them like some sort of sacred cow. That's all. The police are like any other group of people... good and bad.

My daughter is flying in to visit today and it always puts me on edge. I'm not trying to make excuses for myself, I'm just a bit edgy. I am sorry for coming off as hostile and belligerent, Salamander. Forgive me.

Saladin, I'm glad you understand my post for what it is. Not a defense of corrupt law enforcement, just a reminder that they may be needed in our life. I guess we just have to hope that when we do need them, the good ones respond.

I'll say a prayer that your daughter has a safe flight. Enjoy her visit.

I will keep your thoughts on the police in my mind and think about it. Thank you for the prayer for my daughter.

I've got to get to the airport... have a good one.

Lant, "...I have seen police officers and expert witnesses, especially some defense experts and "biomechanical experts" spouting junk science, be untruthful on the stand." OK. I get it. Only your clients are not guilty and tell the truth and don't fake illness or injury. Everyone else is a cheater and a liar. What did you do with the "biomechanical expert" spouting junk science? Probably found one of the same to say what you wanted. I don't think you are capable of embracing the concept of "reasonable doubt". 'Only my client is honest, because he paid me to say so.' Hmmm! smells like blood money to me. a real sell out.

chuxx - are you related to ramblin' Rose? I actually have better things to do than waste anymore time responding to your baloney.

Sounds like I hit a nerve.

Lant, I respect you and what you do. I tried to tell you guys about the hatred toward law enforcement and the judicial system.

Analyst, you are still griping about me objecting to drunk a$$ cops pushing their weight around at Chevy's. When have I ever said anything about cops. OH! wait. I commented on a court case or two. You guys like to gang up on people. Even I can find redeeming values in what some of the officers opine. It's the wannabes and back stage court stooges that I object to the most.

Lant knows who I am and deals with me on a number of issues sometimes he pi$$e$ me off and I often do the same to him.

I don't care much for people that are dead set that their beliefs are uncompromising. Such as yourself. You epitomise what is wrong with our justice system.

As far as cops go. I

That's my point ChuxxR, you automaticaly assumed that the dirtbag was telling the whole story, in defiance of an independent witness who said the cop was not out of line. The first thing you did, without all the information, was side against the cop. It was the dirtbag who was out of line. You are hopeless.

I don't care much for people that are dead set that their beliefs are uncompromising either, such as yourself. You epitomise what is wrong with our children.

Thank you. Isn't that what Socrates. Never mind